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Adding outdor outlets to an abandoned 50 amp hot tub disconnect

Adding outdor outlets to an abandoned 50 amp hot tub disconnect

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  #1  
Old 06-12-13, 11:57 AM
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Adding outdor outlets to an abandoned 50 amp hot tub disconnect

I want to add 2 outdoor outlets for a deck. The deck used to have a hot tub that was fed from a 50 amp 2 pole gfci breaker in the basement thru a 50 amp disconnect attached to the deck. The outdoor disconnect is still there, the hot tub long gone. I would like to use the disconnect to add the two outlets. What is the preferred method of doing so?

1. My original thoughts was to swap the 50 amp 2 pole gfci to a 20 amp 2 pole gfci and then use each leg available at the outside disconnect to wire an outlet. gfci breaker indoors takes care of any problems right?

After seeing the price of a 20 amp gfci breaker I came up with another thought.

2. Swap out the breaker inside with a 20 amp normal 2 pole breaker and then wire in 2 independent gfci outlets outside.

Are either of these "code" and what is preferred or is there a better alternative?
 
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  #2  
Old 06-12-13, 12:08 PM
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If it is 2-conductor cable and has a white wire to one side of the breaker and black to the other side that white wire can be moved to the neutral bar and the breaker changed to a 20 amp single pole breaker.

If this is conduit and there is no white wire a new white wire will need to be pulled.

If this is 3-conductor cable and there is a red and black on the breaker with a white on the neutral bar disconnect and cap the red at both ends. Connect the black to a 20 amp single pole breaker.

If the wire is #6 you may need to add #12 pigtails at the breaker and receptacle in order to make the connection.
 
  #3  
Old 06-12-13, 12:09 PM
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Either method is acceptable. You might need to "pigtail" #12 conductors to the original wiring to get it to fit the new receptacles. You also need to use weatherproof receptacles and in-use covers.
 
  #4  
Old 06-12-13, 12:46 PM
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I am going by recollection here as it's not my house but a friends. I have never pulled the cover off the breaker panel inside but its a 4 wire setup at the disconnect outside R, B, W, G. Turns out the disconnect is about smack dab in the middle of the deck and the outlets are wanted at each end - thus the thought to use each leg of the 240 going out to run a 120 circuit for each outlet. My current outdoor thoughts was to just run conduit and 12-2 out of the disconnect in each direction and install boxes and GFCI outlets at each end of the deck, one side fed by the red and the other fed by the black. I want the setup to be to code but am looking for the cheapest solution. GFCI breakers are expensive in comparison to the outlets. This would require a regular 2 pole 20 amp breaker inside correct?

Ray's solutions are geared towards eliminating one of the outgoing legs of the 240, but for wiring simplicity I thought using both legs would be easier. Hopefully I am explaining it correctly.
 
  #5  
Old 06-12-13, 12:50 PM
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Your way creates a multi-wire circuit which is a bit more complicated and I didn't see the need to make it more complicated since nothing you have said indicates a single 20 amp is less than you need.
 
  #6  
Old 06-12-13, 01:02 PM
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You can do what you have in mind with a standard 2-pole 240V 20A breaker inside. Better practice, IMO, is to replace the existing breaker with two single-pole 20A breakers with their handles joined with a handle tie. That will allow each circuit to trip on its own while still requiring that both will have to be turned off before any work can be done on either circuit.

You'll need to install a weather resistant GFCI receptacle in a weatherproof box at each location, and install an in-use cover over each receptacle. You may be able to find complete kits with the box, receptacle and cover for less than the cost of the individual materials.

My current outdoor thoughts was to just run conduit and 12-2 out of the disconnect in each direction and...
The conduit needs to be Schedule 80 PVC or EMT with compression fittings. 12-2 is a cable. Ordinary indoor cable - "Romex" - is not rated for use outdoors nor for use in conduit. You need to pull individual 12 AWG THHN/THWN conductors inside the conduit - black, white and green.
 
  #7  
Old 06-12-13, 01:38 PM
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I have some stuff left over from other projects that I was going to use if OK. 12-2 UFB wire I was going to put in the grey outdoor conduit and boxes (also leftover) with weatherproof covers and gfci outlets (also leftover).
 
  #8  
Old 06-12-13, 01:57 PM
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That may all work. The UF-b will be fine in the conduit. The conduit needs to be Schedule 80 PVC or EMT with compression fittings. Schedule 40 PVC is too fragile to use where it can be damaged. The GFCI receptacles need to be weather resistant devices. The covers must be in-use (bubble) covers.
 
  #9  
Old 06-12-13, 02:06 PM
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Thanks for all the help. I thought I had it all figured out sufficiently but I am by no means an expert and the advice is much appreciated.
 
  #10  
Old 06-12-13, 02:33 PM
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It sounds like you pretty much had it.
 
  #11  
Old 06-12-13, 02:35 PM
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With a multi-wire circuit you must use two GFCI receptacles. They must each be installed on the two separate 120 circuits as the first receptacle after it is split.
 
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