Need >>HELP<< ASAP

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  #1  
Old 07-18-13, 07:24 PM
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Need >>HELP<< ASAP

I would greatly appreciate someone showing me how does this cables go (see attachment).
 
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  #2  
Old 07-18-13, 07:40 PM
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Where does the steel conduit go? What size wires are in the Romex cable? What size breaker/fuse protects that Romex cable?

Welcome to the forums.
 
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Old 07-18-13, 07:40 PM
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With that little info good luck.
What's it go to?
Are you trying to hook up a 220 volt water heater, A/C unit compressor ECT.
Remove the plate where the connections are made so the guys can tell you what goes where.
 
  #4  
Old 07-18-13, 08:22 PM
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Hi, thanks both of you for your prompt responses. The Romex cable comes from a 220 volt water heaters as joecaption1 guessed. How can I determine the size of the Romex cables? according to a picture I saw on Google I would guess 8 Gauge/40 Amps (I honestly have no idea what I'm talking about).

I don't know if this helps, but int he Romex cable, it says NM-B 600 Volt 8/2 with ground (UL)...

The only thing I know is that those cables goind inside that gray box, I just dont know how to put them in ((

joecaption1: When you say "plate" you mean to open the water heater?

Thanks for the help again.

Here are some more pics:
 
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Old 07-18-13, 08:27 PM
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I would greatly appreciate someone showing me how does this cables go
On the floor and out of harm's way until we can get a good understanding of the load, the device, and the overcurrent protection.

Tell us what you're working on and what you want it to do. Post a readable picture of the label and one of the inside of the enclosure.

Thanks.
 
  #6  
Old 07-18-13, 08:42 PM
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The "gray box" is a service disconnect. Once it's opened there are terminal lugs inside, probably for two hot wires and ground, and there might possibly be a neutral.

Is romex supposed to free-air like that? I thought that a proper conduit of whatever type with individual wires is supposed to connect devices like whatever that thing on the left is to the service disconnect...

I don't like this. The water valve near the flexible metallic conduit and service disconnect, the free-air use of romex.

We also don't know the requirements of the device on the left. Normally those wire colors are for one hot, one neutral, and one ground, but I don't expect there to be a neutral in the service disconnect.
 
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Old 07-18-13, 08:45 PM
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Alright more pictures here from the specs of the water heater, the sticker information of the little gray box, the black thing where you are suppose to insert in the box, and the place where that black thing goes... Sorry I know nothing about cables and/or electrical stuff


Pics:



 
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Old 07-18-13, 08:49 PM
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Shouldn't 54 amps be running on 6awg, or maybe even 4awg if protected by a 60A fuse??
 
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Old 07-18-13, 08:50 PM
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I don't know if this helps, but int he Romex cable, it says NM-B 600 Volt 8/2 with ground (UL)
Yes, that's a Type NM cable (commonly called Romex®) with #8 AWG wires in it. It can safely supply a load of up to 40 amps.

What does the inside of that grey box look like, and how does this 240V 60A circuit breaker come into this?

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Old 07-18-13, 08:53 PM
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Shouldn't 54 amps be running on 6awg?
Yes, protected by that 60A breaker. Or 4 AWG and a 70A breaker.

[SUP]I think you did an edit as I was replying. [/SUP]
 
  #11  
Old 07-18-13, 08:56 PM
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yeah, I did...

So the connection between the service disconnect and the HWH is inadequate even if romex is allowed to be used that way...
 
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Old 07-18-13, 09:01 PM
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nashkat1: I couldn't tell you... don't know how to open it, and I live rented so I believe it's best I leave it unopen.

An electrician came yesterday... and he plugged it in but I forgot to ask him how to do it... he then plugged it all out cause I needed the Water Heater to take it somewhere to be fixed :S
 
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Old 07-18-13, 09:13 PM
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You're right. Since you're a tenant, you shouldn't mess with it. You should also have your landlord fix the water heater.
 
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Old 07-18-13, 09:30 PM
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Totally... but it's a really long... and boring story. Plus I'm tired of talking about it lol...

I think I found something useful... this is the disconnect (not the same brand, but it was on the water heater website)!!!

http://www.titanheater.com/pdf/electric-disconnect.pdf
 
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Old 07-18-13, 09:39 PM
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That's the point, it's not a plug-in connection, it's a hardwired connection. Wires from the appliance are supposed to go in through a hole in the side or bottom of the service-disconnect, and be physically screwed or clamped down. The two blades on the black handle part are what make the connection between the service and the appliance, literally working like how those old blade switches do in the Frankenstein movies. When you pull the handle out, the two sets of connections are disconnected, and when the handle is installed, current flows across them.

The thing has to be opened in order to reconnect the wires to their terminals inside. Power needs to be off at the breaker, and you need to know what that white wire is for. The 8AWG wire is also the wrong rating, it should be 6AWG, and it probably shouldn't be a romex bundle, it should be a flexible liquid-tight conduit with a black, a red (or another black), and a green or bare running from the water heater to the service disconnect.
 
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Old 07-18-13, 09:59 PM
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Alright I opened the Disconnect. Also have a chart where it presents Electrical Requirements in case this is relevant to you guys (SCR2 N-120 Titan Tankless Water Heater, Tankless Water Heaters).

I have been using this water heater for over a year, dont know much about it before I moved, but it was working all fine how it was, until like a week ago.


Do you have an idea taking of reference the picture I attached, where all three cables go?
 
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Old 07-18-13, 10:31 PM
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It says right there on the spec sheet to use 6AWG. I personally cannot provide advice for a unit that most assuredly will draw a lot of current that isn't being hooked up with the correct gauge of wire. That's how fires happen, as the wire is too thin for both the application and for the breaker for the application, and may burn through before the breaker trips.
 
  #18  
Old 07-18-13, 10:36 PM
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First of all, a cable is a factory assembly of two or more conductors. You have ONE cable with three conductors.

The cable, and its conductors are NOT of sufficient size for this water heater. You have AWG #8 conductors and that water heater REQUIRES AWG #6 conductors at a minimum. Using that cable/conductors IS a fire hazard and contrary to the electrical code. Before using this heater you need to install the correct cable or else a conduit with #6 copper conductors.

The two little "clamps" sitting on the bottom of the local disconnect box attach to the two inner lugs in the same manner as the incoming power conductors are attached. Before attempting to connect anything you MUST turn off the circuit breaker in the panel feeding this disconnect. The disconnect has 240 volts on those terminals and electricity is an equal opportunity killer. Be safe.
 
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Old 07-19-13, 05:27 AM
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Most instant water heaters come with a whip[ attached that looks like NM-b. From very limited experience they often look undersized. May not actually be NM.b and I'm guessing have a higher temperature rating.
 
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Old 07-19-13, 06:22 AM
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Trouble is in post #4 the OP says the cable is NM-B. It is too small for the tankless and needs to be replaced with the proper size. Just because is has been working for a year does not make it correct or safe.

Looks like they should have installed a gas tankless.
 
  #21  
Old 07-19-13, 06:49 AM
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An electrician came yesterday... and he plugged it in but I forgot to ask him how to do it... he then plugged it all out cause I needed the Water Heater to take it somewhere to be fixed
So...........has the water heater been fixed? If so, I'd call the electrician back to connect it properly. The way it was previously connected was not correct and was a fire hazard.
 
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Old 07-19-13, 09:39 AM
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Do you have an idea taking of reference the picture I attached, where all three cables go?
It isn't three cables. It's three conductors, or wires, in one cable.

Yes, several of us know where each of the three wires needs to be connected. Unfortunately, the wires in the cable you have now are too small for the load. If you look carefully at the black wires coming to the disconnect from your panel and at the wires in your piece of NM-b, you'll see that the wires in the cable are smaller.

The water heater needs to be repaired, if it hasn't already been, and it needs to be connected to power with wiring that is large enough to safely supply it. This needs to be done by the owner of the property you're renting, or the service technician he or she employs. You can assume responsibility for making sure it's done properly.

I agree with T-W-X and others. I would use individual conductors in liquidtight conduit to make this connection, not Type NM-B, even if it was the proper size.
 
  #23  
Old 07-19-13, 10:45 AM
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Hey Jolfer.

The sticking point is that the electrical requirements you linked (see below) note that the heater requires 6 gauge wire (AWG 6), and you currently have 8 gauge installed. Using the smaller gauge wire is a fire hazard, and that needs to be fixed. Since it's only a few feet of wire, it should be a quick fix for an electrician if you don't feel comfortable connecting the new wire to the water heater and panel. As others have mentioned, I would consult with your landlord since it's a rental though.
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