clarity


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Old 07-22-13, 11:02 AM
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clarity

I am in the middle of doing a water restoration/ upgrade at the house. My wife's idea of a fun retirement.... The bathroom has had a GFI outlet installed, the house was built in 1954 and is a smaller house. The issue the wife wants a second outlet in the bathroom so I read about GFI circuits and have a basic understanding about line and load terminals. I opened the cover and pulled the plug assy out of the box and found two cables in the box both having two wires being a black and a white. My question is the black from one cable goes to the line connection and the white from the same cable goes to the load connection so they criss-cross. As I understand it the line cable is the power source powering the plugs as well as the load connectors those enjoying GFI protection. I understand I have to explore a bit more to determine where the second cable goes as from what I was told there shouldn't have been a second cable as she had the whole thing installed after she bought the house maybe 12 years ago. Thanks for any advice in advance. I quite building custom cars to learn the construction trades, careful what you wish for........
 
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Old 07-22-13, 11:12 AM
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Both conductors from the incoming power cable should be on the LINE connections. If downstream GFI protection is required the outgoing conductors must be fed from the LOAD connections. If downstream protection is not needed, both the incoming and outgoing can be connected to the LINE terminals. Only the receptacle will be protected, nowhere else.

The connections should not be crossed.

Since you are installing a new receptacle it should be wired with #12 and on a 20 amp circuit serving only bathroom loads.
 
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Old 07-22-13, 01:36 PM
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pcboss, thanks for the response, I have corrected the crossed wire situation. I didn't know if it was done for some reason other than a goof up. Did some checking where the wires all seem to go and they are a daisy chain including the GFI from the kitchen through both bathrooms and the wall plugs in the rear bedroom. It is a 20a circuit which seems to include a lot of stuff but as mentioned earlier it is an older house so it doesn't run a ton of higher draw appliances that use this circuit. I am going to add one more outlet in the master bath more for convenience than anything else but each room has a GFI and they are all hooked in a protected series so how many amps are the plug circuits safe to operate. I could hook them up in and out using the line connections instead of going through the GFI protection ?
 
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Old 07-22-13, 02:27 PM
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Each bathroom requires a separate 20A circuit for its GFCI protected receptacle(s) if that circuit also serves any non-receptacle devices in that bathroom, such as the exhaust fan or the lights. Alternatively, one 20A circuit can serve the GFCI protected receptacles in two bathrooms. In either case, a circuit serving the GFCI protected receptacle(s) in the bathroom(s) may not serve any loads outside the bathroom(s).

The kitchen requires two 20A GFCI protected circuits, known as Small Appliance Branch Circuits, or SABCs, serving the receptacles located above the countertop or on an island. With a few limited exceptions, those circuits may not serve any additional loads.

A dining room also requires two 20A SABCs, and a breakfast nook should have at least one. Those SABCs don't have to be GFCI protected, but the circuits should have AFCI protection mounted in, or immediately adjacent to, the main distribution panel.

Did some checking where the wires all seem to go and they are a daisy chain including the GFI from the kitchen through both bathrooms and the wall plugs in the rear bedroom. It is a 20a circuit which seems to include a lot of stuff but as mentioned earlier it is an older house so it doesn't run a ton of higher draw appliances that use this circuit.
Coffee pot, 800W; toaster, 1000W; microwave, 1100 - 1500W; hair dryer, 1800W...
 

Last edited by Nashkat1; 07-22-13 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 07-22-13, 02:34 PM
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You wrote:
they are a daisy chain including the GFI from the kitchen through both bathrooms and the wall plugs in the rear bedroom.
To repeat what PCBoss wrote:
Since you are installing a new receptacle it should be wired with #12 and on a 20 amp circuit serving only bathroom loads.
So you need to run a new circuit to the bathroom to be code compliant.* Also by code the kitchen should have two dedicated 20 amp countertop receptacle circuits.

*If you have more then one bathroom all may be on that 20 amp circuit but only if the lights aren't. If one bathroom only on the 20 amp circuit the lights can be on the receptacle circuit.
 
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Old 07-22-13, 04:23 PM
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Again thanks guys, it is a real advantage knowing what it's supposed to look like when it's done. I will have to do a bit of modification to follow the guidelines you have shared but what the hell. So far I have re-plummed the place in copper, removed the flooring to the sub floors and am installing tile in both baths including a tub and shower in the master. What's a little wiring..... right?
Retirement is such a blessing
 
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Old 07-22-13, 05:55 PM
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Retirement is such a blessing
Isn't it? Welcome to the club!

What's a little wiring..... right?
Piece of cake. You might want to check back before you get going on the kitchen. The two dedicated SABCs are just one part of what a kitchen needs.
 
 

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