Wiring Help - Relay for Bathroom Timers

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Old 08-13-13, 08:32 AM
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Wiring Help - Relay for Bathroom Timers

Hi Everyone,

First time poster and really in need of some basic help. I am able to perform simplewiring, but I need help understanding how a particular relay fits into the picture. The below setup was installed by the electrician when we bought the house, unfortunately I had to relocate the box and move things around due to some new construction. Although I wrote down the wiring, I lost that paper and now am at a loss trying to reassemble this circuit.

I had two timer switches that either would work and turn on the bathroom exhaust fan via a dry contact using the Omron relay. Now I have nothing and a wife who I try to urge to have short showers (yeah right...). Can anyone point me in the right direction on how to re-assemble the wiring? I have attached an outline below.

As always, thanks for any help.
 
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Old 08-13-13, 10:47 AM
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It's best to begin the discussion by dis-regarding the previous electrical connections ,and asking how YOU want to control the bath exhaust fan.

We need to know the number of outlet-boxes( OB's) implaced on the walls of the bathroom , and what they "contain"; for example , there could be an OB with a switch and receptacle , = an OB "containing " two devices , or OB's with a single device: one switch or one receptacle.

You also need to determine which OB contains the 2-wire cable to the exhaust-fan.

If a single "standard" single-pole switch controlling the fan ; the simplest type of arrangement ; is not acceptable, then please inform us of exactly what you want to effect in controling the fan.
 
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Old 08-13-13, 11:15 AM
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Thank you for your reply, I very much appreciate it.

I want to be able to turn on the bathroom fan from either timer, each of them would share the same circuit as the relay. When a timer expires, the relay breaks the circuit and the fan turns off. If both timers are in use, the last timer to turn off breaks the circuit and turns off the fan.

Each bathroom has one outlet box, and within each box there is a light switch for two halogen bulbs and the timer (ie. Two devices per OB in each bathroom).

The exhaust fan is an Lifebreath 155 HRV that has a panel which contains a dry contact point, for operation by mechanical timers. I am using the Lutron digital timers via the relay to control this contact point. When powered, the relay completes the dry contact point to turn on the HRV.
The timers are Lutron MA-T51MN-WH, multi-location requiring a neutral.

I would use the normal HRV timers by Lifebreath, but I canít as I only have a two wire line run to the bathroom OBís and not a three wire line needed for those timers. As such, I am assumedly forced to use the dry contact point.

Hopefully this helps, thank you in anticipation.
 
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Old 08-13-13, 12:47 PM
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If my understanding is correct , one unit ventilates two bathrooms.

You mention that you " had to re-loacate the box" ; what exactly did you "relocate"?.

Two 2-wire cables , each extending from a timer-control located in a bathroom; where do these two cables terminate?
 
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Old 08-13-13, 12:55 PM
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Correct! One unit ventilates both bathrooms.

The box where all these wires come together is in my basement, with the HRV unit (the bathrooms are main floor). The box was screwed to floor joists in the ceiling, where the rest of the houses electrical runs through the floor joists. I had to move the junction box over a bit to accommodate the install of a framed wall, there was enough slack on all the wires to accommodate (thankfully), but I had to pull it all apart to clean up the wiring routes going to the junction box. Itís all the same wires that were previously there, guaranteed.

These two wires cables extending from the timers in the bathroom terminate at the junction box in question in my basement. The diagram I made essentially highlights all the devices coming together in the basement in a large junction box. So my problem is how to I re-wire all the devices back together in this junction box to regain the same control I previously had? How does the relay get wired in to accommodate the timers?

Thank you very much for your help, itís really appreciated.

I also updated my diagram to reflect the junction box where the wires come together.
 
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Last edited by umchemist; 08-13-13 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 08-13-13, 02:31 PM
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The two White conductors of the two cables extending from the timers connect to the White conductor of the switching-relay--- ditto the two Black conductors of the two cables extending from the timers.

The Black & White conductors of the "Feed-In" cable connect to the B & W conductors extending from the receptacle.

The purpose of the switching-relay is to avoid line-voltage control of the ventilating unit which could be at a remote location.
 
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Old 08-13-13, 03:34 PM
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Thanks for the reply....though how do I get power from the feed in to the timers/relay?
 
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Old 08-13-13, 03:49 PM
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The HRV is powered independetly
 
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Old 08-13-13, 05:42 PM
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how do I get power from the feed in to the timers/relay?
These installation instructions may help. Maestro Countdown Timer MA-T51MN.
 
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Old 08-13-13, 06:06 PM
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Do you remember what color wire is connected to what color screw on each of the timers? If not, can you tell which screws were used and which weren't?
 
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Old 08-13-13, 11:02 PM
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You've got some issues here.

1) Those timers require a neutral and you don't have one. I'm guessing that someone may be using the ground as a neutral for the timers.

2) You're telling us that the relay has a 24v coil. Where is the 24 volts coming from ?

3) You show a "power" cable and a "live all the time" power outlet. How can there be two power sources ?

If you are using a 24v relay then there would need to be a 24v transformer.
 
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Old 08-15-13, 11:58 AM
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I overlooked the possibilty that the two cables from the timers are "switch-loops"; this can be verified by examining the timer connections . If the two timer "switching leads" connect only to the two wires of the cable between the bathroom outlet-box and the juction-box in the basement, then this connection would indicate a "switch-loop"; aside from a Neutral connection to the timer , there is no "live-wire" to the timer.

IF this indeed is the connection , then the power-supply is in the basement junction-box.I'm presuming the connections at the basement juction-box are to a switching-relay which is a unit with a 120 / 24 volt control-tranformer , and 24 volt relay , 120 volt line-connections , and a two-wire 24 volt control-connection.

So please examine the timer-connections in the bathroom outlet-boxes-Thanks!!!
 
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