Conduit wiring with Romex for the garage?

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  #1  
Old 08-21-13, 06:22 PM
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Conduit wiring with Romex for the garage?

Hi,

Just joined the forum.

I'm in the process of planning a garage rewiring. Lighting, but most importantly outlets on the wall for power tools, and an other stuff.

I have a part of a spool of 12/2 Romex leftover from a kitchen remodel. I have a box full of gang boxes, both metal, and blue plastic.

I have no reason to rip the finished walls off the inside of garage to run the Romex.

The ceiling is not finished.

So, my question(s) are this.

What conduit would you use to fish the romex though? Metal? PVC What size?
I don't see how I can use the blue plastic gang boxes, but maybe I can?
Also, I don't have any PVC gang boxes, but I know they make convert to fit in the metal boxes from PVC.

I have four 20 amp circuits to run from a common area. I really don't want to run 4 individual PVC/metal pipes down along the wall where the outlets would be if I don't have to.

Also, I believe I can have 6 outlets per 20 amp circuit correct?

I also have the need to run two 220VAC lines down the same wall (one for the AC, and one for ham radio amplifier )

A buddy told me to avoid metal because PVC is much easier to work with?

thanks in advance!
 
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  #2  
Old 08-21-13, 08:38 PM
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There is no residential limit to the number of receptacles on a circuit.

Before an answer about the type of conduit can be given you should check with your building officials. The Chicagoland area is more restrictive than other areas.

The conduit would be sized based on the number and sizes of the cables used.

Receptacles in the garage will require GFI protection.
 
  #3  
Old 08-21-13, 08:54 PM
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thanks so much for responding.

I live in an unincorporated area in Southern Illinois, so many rules, but nothing like living in a city.

didn't know about the GFI rule. Is this a state law, or some sort of national code thing?

I guess fishing the Romex becomes a pain if there are more than 3 runs in a 1 inch pvc pipe.

any advice on PVC versus metal?

thanks
 
  #4  
Old 08-21-13, 11:10 PM
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i'm wondering why you can't use armored cable. it's not that expensive, and that would eliminate the need to pull the cable through pvc.

check out home depot:
Cerrowire 250 ft. Coil 12-2 MC Aluminum Cable-1483-1602G at The Home Depot

i'm using this on my video studio wiring. to heck with all that pulling and gluing of pvc. then all you have to do is just secure the wire to the surface of the wall and you're good to go. 14/2 is even cheaper.

anyone know of a reason he can't do this?
 
  #5  
Old 08-22-13, 08:04 AM
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I was just trying to make use the romex I had. However I might not have that much left, I'll have to check.

Again, I'm not married to any idea. If you guys have suggestions I'm all ears.
 
  #6  
Old 08-22-13, 08:36 AM
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What am I missing?
I have no reason to rip the finished walls off the inside of garage to run the Romex.
The ceiling is not finished.
If the ceiling is unfinished why would you have to rip the Sheetrock at all. Cable can easily be run in finished walls if you have access from above. Even if you didn't have access at most a few small neatly cut holes would be needed. You never rip off Sheetrock just to run cable. In your case running conduit would be harder than just running it in the walls.
 
  #7  
Old 08-22-13, 08:49 AM
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Good idea. So I can run romex in the open in the garage roof truss' without violating some code someplace?

Actually, the only thing I'll have to fight is the pink insulation in the walls. because the bottom 4 feet of the walls are press board, and the top 4 feet are peg board which is coming off anyway. i just didn't want to have to take out the insulation if I didn't have to. Nor did I want to take off the press board. If i were building the garage from scratch I wouldn't have used either. the peg board will be replaced with drywall/Sheetrock.

I just wanted some of the outlets lower than 4 feet, which would be in the pressboard area.
 
  #8  
Old 08-22-13, 09:47 AM
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Oops..

No access from the top. The garage framing (2x4) is in the way, so its not like an interior wall where you can fish things down inside it between the drywall. It has a 2x4 "cap" running across it.

again, keep the suggestions coming!

thanks
 
  #9  
Old 08-22-13, 10:07 AM
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Good idea. So I can run romex in the open in the garage roof truss' without violating some code someplace?
Yes, but it needs to be stapled.

It has a 2x4 "cap" running across it.
You mean stud plate? All walls do. You drill through it.
the top 4 feet are peg board which is coming off anyway.
So it will be easy to drill your holes.

Actually, the only thing I'll have to fight is the pink insulation in the walls.
Just use a fish tape or rod.
 
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Old 08-22-13, 11:08 AM
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Just use a fish tape or rod.
A short length of chain also works wonders and finds it's own way down between the insulation and the drywall.
 
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Old 08-22-13, 02:30 PM
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I picked up a tape at home depot today.

thanks.
 
  #12  
Old 08-22-13, 05:56 PM
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Once you take the peg board off you can lay the Type NM (Romex) wiring in wherever you need to. However, because the wall is now open, you will have to treat it as an unfinished wall. That means you need to secure (staple) the cable to the center of each stud, front-to-back, for vertical runs. One staple w/in 12" of the penetration through the top plate, one w/in 12" of each box, and no more than 4' between any two staples.

The good news is that you can drill up through the top plate and horizontally through studs, in the center, to run your cable.
 
  #13  
Old 08-25-13, 08:26 AM
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I'm replacing the peg board with drywall/sheetrock. So the wall won't be exposed. I believe the plan is now to tuck the Romex between the insulation and the stud, feeding it in from the top down where it meets the press board. Then fish it down to about knee high where the outlets will be. Once this is done and working, then the dry wall goes up, leaving the press board in place.

Had my 15 year old daughter put up 7 of the metal octagon boxes last night. shes just learning what screwdrivers, pliers, etc. are called and what they are used for.

Even though I got some "teen-itude" out of her about having to work in the garage, she enjoyed it more than she let on.

Next I'll have her cut the green grounding wires 6 inches long and fix them to the green grounding screws.

Anyway, things are coming together on the project.

I'm running 12/2 on 20 amp circuits with 7 single outlets per circuit.

thanks.
 
  #14  
Old 08-25-13, 08:44 AM
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Had my 15 year old daughter put up 7 of the metal octagon boxes last night.
Yep, helpers working for room and board are always best.

Let us know if you have any more questions. Oh and I'm sure you know the cables in open wall space must be stapled.
 
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Old 08-25-13, 08:50 AM
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yes, thanks. It will only be open wall, while I'm working on it. then the drywall goes up. when finished the only thing in the garage that will be open is the ceiling (roof trusses).

thanks.
 
  #16  
Old 08-25-13, 08:51 AM
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But after doesn't count. If the wall is open when you run the cable it must be stapled.
 
  #17  
Old 08-25-13, 08:55 AM
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it will be. thanks. at least the top half, the bottom won't be because the pressboard won't be removed. just fished.
 
  #18  
Old 08-25-13, 09:01 AM
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That is fine. Just stapel before it enters and after the pressboard.
 
  #19  
Old 08-25-13, 09:05 AM
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will do. thanks.

also, I'm looking for some good (rather cheap) florescent lighting any suggestions?
 
  #20  
Old 08-25-13, 09:32 AM
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I generally use the 4' T8 2-lamp strip lights my supply house carries. They run about $30-40 per fixture, but have excellent multi-voltage ballasts. I do not know the brand off the top of my head.
 
  #21  
Old 08-25-13, 09:36 AM
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So T8 lighting not T12? I've read its the way to go. $40 ouch!.
 
  #22  
Old 08-25-13, 10:01 AM
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I don't think T-12 fixtures are still available. Install the T-8 fixtures. If you want to spend a bit more on the front end but save on operating costs, put LED tubes in them.
 
  #23  
Old 08-25-13, 10:05 AM
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I'm really after Lumens.. Naturally, saving $$$ is good, but this is for a workshop, workbench area so I want to see what I'm doing..
 
  #24  
Old 08-25-13, 10:21 AM
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If you're going to use fluorescents you are going to have an angry daughter. You probably don't need those octagon boxes she installed since the overhead is open you can make your connections in the lights. No boxes needed.
 
  #25  
Old 08-25-13, 10:28 AM
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The octogons are for plugs under the workbench. I'm putting in a standard workbench along the garage wall (hammering, drilling, grinding, etc. ) Also, an electronics workstation in the corner of the garage (soldering, computer repair, etc.) so not a lot of current, but a need for a lot of outlets.
An Air Conditioner is also going in.
 
  #26  
Old 08-25-13, 10:31 AM
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Octagons are not used for receptacles. Rectangular "switch" boxes are use for receptacles.
 
  #27  
Old 08-25-13, 10:37 AM
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I bought the plates with holes for the outlets for the octagons..
 
  #28  
Old 08-25-13, 11:37 AM
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Why? Just makes the job harder. If you mean the plates that use the center screw of the receptacle to hold the receptacle in place they are no longer code compliant.
 
  #29  
Old 08-25-13, 12:19 PM
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I bought the plates with holes for the outlets for the octagons..
Mounted on or under the bench, I'd use 4" square boxes with raised covers, each for either one or two duplex receptacles. Like this:

Raco 2-Gang Square Duplex Receptacle Cover-902C at The Home Depot

Modern duplex receptacles don't fit very well in an octagon box.
 
  #30  
Old 08-25-13, 07:19 PM
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I had a box of the octagon ones left from a remodel job. I wanted to make use of them. The face places are flat/flush mount metal.
these.
Steel City 1-Gang Duplex Receptacle Octagon Box Cover-5402LR-25R at The Home Depot

the plate mounts with two screws on the ends.

thanks.
 
  #31  
Old 08-25-13, 07:30 PM
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Use 1900 boxes for your receptacles. The octagon boxes will not work according to current code. Save them for another project.
 
  #32  
Old 08-25-13, 07:49 PM
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Ok, thanks. Is there any thing unsafe about them?
 
  #33  
Old 08-25-13, 08:16 PM
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Yes, they hold the receptacle with only one screw.
 
  #34  
Old 08-25-13, 08:17 PM
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The plates are not code compliant any longer because it is now required to use two screws through the mounting ears. The center screw was never designed for the stress of having plugs inserted. I can't quote code section but PCboss posted about it sometime ago. Maybe he will be along if you want more information.
 
  #35  
Old 08-26-13, 08:06 AM
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The plates are not code compliant any longer because it is now required to use two screws through the mounting ears. The center screw was never designed for the stress of having plugs inserted.
I agree, but the 5402 LR cover posted by the OP is code compliant. Evidently Home Depot is just using an old picture. That being said, I still wouldn't use the octagon boxes, but would use the 4" square box with raised cover I suggested earlier. Here is a picture of the cover.

http://www.tnb.com/ps/fulltilt/index.cgi?part=5402LR

In the OP's application, the octagon boxes would be extremely hard to mount solidly. This is just a bad application for an octagon box.
 
  #36  
Old 08-26-13, 08:14 AM
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Hi,

I'll have to look closely at the plate covers and see if they have 3 holes or not. I used drywall screws to mount them to the studs behind the pressboard. They seem to hold solid. I can't budge them.
 
  #37  
Old 08-26-13, 08:32 AM
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Yes, their code compliant if they look like the covers Joe posted. The picture in your link isn't.

This is:
 
  #38  
Old 08-26-13, 08:37 AM
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ok, thanks. I didn't look at them that close.
 
  #39  
Old 08-26-13, 11:40 AM
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How have you and your daughter mounted the octagon boxes so that they will hold still as cords are plugged into and pulled out of the receptacles?

Also, if you use those boxes, don't forget that you must mount the covers so that they fall into the lock-down position before the screws are tightened.
 
  #40  
Old 08-26-13, 11:47 AM
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we mounted them two drywall screws per box into the wall studs. they seem very solid.
However if the plates don't have the 3 holes, I'll take them back and get 4 inch boxes and mount them the same way.

thanks.
 
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