Adding an outdoor subpanel for an AG pool

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  #1  
Old 09-03-13, 08:44 AM
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Adding an outdoor subpanel for an AG pool

Hello everyone... I am adding a pool to my yard. This project is still in its infancy, but I am looking to add an outdoor subpanel for the new pool. I am only at the stage where I am laying conduit in my trench. However, I have already pulled permits and have added a 30-amp, single phase breaker in the main panel. The run is just shy of 50 feet and I plan on pulling 12-gauge Romex rated for outdoor use. I only plan on running a pump and maybe an underwater light or two. I was considering this panel: Square D by Schneider Electric Homeline 100 Amp 6-Space 12-Circuit Outdoor Main Lugs Load Center-HOM612L100RBCP at The Home Depot

I'm not a big expert on adding subpanels but I figure that if I ground this properly, it should work for what I need. I don't see why I would need anything more than 30 amps since the pump would have a max draw of 20, and an underwater pool light should have a rather insignificant draw of amperage. Is this a good box? Is there something else I should be using instead?
 
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Old 09-03-13, 09:22 AM
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I wouldn't do anything smaller than 50 amps. You cannot use UF for a pool, you need to use THWN in conduit. 2 ground rods are required, as well as all of the article 680 requirements.
 
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Old 09-03-13, 10:04 AM
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A 12 circuit main lug will require a disconnect. Probably easier and cheaper to use an eight space 100 amp main breaker panel. It should include the main breaker which is used only as a disconnect in this case not over load protection.
 
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Old 09-03-13, 10:23 AM
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Why 2 ground rods? And can I add GFCI breakers inside this subpanel in addition to grounding it (instead of a GFCI in the main panel)?
 

Last edited by StoningtonQB; 09-03-13 at 10:41 AM.
  #5  
Old 09-03-13, 10:46 AM
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Why 2 ground rods?
Because it's for your pool.
Originally Posted by Justin Smith
2 ground rods are required, as well as all of the article 680 requirements.
Can I just add GFCI breakers inside this subpanel in addition to grounding it?
You can and should have GFCI protection on this equipment. You can make that the feed breaker in your main panel or you can put it in the subpanel. That does not, however, replace a proper earth ground.

Also, why can't I run UF inside a conduit? Aside from higher cost, I fail to see why this can't be done. I don't see anything written forbidding this...
Because it's for your pool.
Originally Posted by Justin Smith
You cannot use UF for a pool, you need to use THWN in conduit... as well as [meeting] all of the article 680 requirements.
 

Last edited by Nashkat1; 09-03-13 at 01:05 PM.
  #6  
Old 09-03-13, 10:57 AM
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A 12 circuit main lug will require a disconnect. Probably easier and cheaper to use an eight space 100 amp main breaker panel. It should include the main breaker which is used only as a disconnect in this case not over load protection.
Thanks Ray for pointing that out! I thought that this had a main breaker (you would have to add) until I realized that this is just a main lug. Is there anything out there you would recommend?
 
  #7  
Old 09-03-13, 11:43 AM
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What is the water depth of your pool?

That makes a difference on the rules.

Edit: Also, what is the pool constructed with and will you have metal ladders, etc?
 
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Old 09-03-13, 11:45 AM
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The run is just shy of 50 feet and I plan on pulling 12-gauge Romex rated for outdoor use.
12 gauge is only rated for 20 amps. You need 10 gauge THWN for 30 amp.
 
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Old 09-03-13, 12:00 PM
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I thought that this had a main breaker (you would have to add) until I realized that this is just a main lug.
I gave you the Reader's Digest version of the answer. You could use a main lug panel with a 60 amp unfused disconnect such as used for A/Cs ahead of it But extra cost extra wiring. You could use a back fed breaker in the main lug panel but again the extra cost for the breaker and the hold down for the back fed breaker. Most main breaker kits will come with yhe main breaker and several branch circuit breakers. You may only need to buy a ground bar but you would have had to buy one for the main lug panel also.

Cable can not be used outside to a swimming pool because outside the ground wire must be insulated
 
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Old 09-03-13, 12:03 PM
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The pool will have a height of 52" (30'x15'x52"). Therefore the only ladder requirement in my town is a locking ladder. There will probably be a deck one day in the distant future but by then I will have to have a fence surrounding the area. I have not yet purchased the pool (the land was just leveled this past week) but it will most likely be of aluminum construction. The sand layer is coming this weekend and the conduit will just sit there, capped off with a pull rope until next year. The pool will be built before I start pulling wire (probably around March or even April). I'm trying to get all of my ducks lined up before I start buying things and begin the work. I had to get the land ready for the pool now because I'm tilling my entire yard in favor of some new grass seed that needs to be planted before the end of this month.
 
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Old 09-03-13, 12:06 PM
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Cable can not be used outside to a swimming pool because outside the ground wire must be insulated
Only if the water level is above 42". That's the reason for my question.

If it's over 42" I would highly recommend an electrician to do the work for you. This is not a typical DIY installation as the rules for swimming pools are numerous.

I feel with the way you are proposing to do things already, you may end up wasting a lot of time and money and possibly making a very unsafe installation.
 
  #12  
Old 09-03-13, 12:15 PM
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A few examples would be:
Nothing can be within 6 feet of the inside walls of the pool.

Only pool associated equipment can be 6' and 10' of the inside walls of the pool.

If this pool associated equipment is within 10' there are other rules that apply such as, the use of twist locks.

Cord and plug connected equipment can't have longer than 3' of cord.

All metal of the pool has to be bonded together and terminated to the bonding lug on the pump and any sanitation equipment, pool heaters, etc.

As Ray pointed out, the ground wire has to be insulated and there's no cable assembly that has an insulated ground.

I won't even go into lights, yet
 
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Old 09-03-13, 06:40 PM
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Wirenut isn't there a rule you must use schedule 80 not 40 within a certain distance of the pool?
 
  #14  
Old 09-04-13, 03:28 AM
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I've never seen that, the code just says "rigid" PVC.
 
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