Reducing 50 amp (for range) to 20 amp outlet

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Old 09-17-13, 02:40 PM
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Reducing 50 amp (for range) to 20 amp outlet

Wife and I decided we would like to have a gas range instead of an electric so we had the gas line run to our kitchen and bought our dream slide in gas range with convection oven. Didn't consider that our new range has a standard 3 prong cord and runs on 15-20 amps. The old range ran on 50 amps and has a 4 prong outlet, so there is no outlet that I can use close to my new oven. Can I convert the 50 amp line down to a 20 amp outlet?
 
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Old 09-17-13, 02:50 PM
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Welcome to the forums!

there is no outlet that I can use close to my new oven. Can I convert the 50 amp line down to a 20 amp outlet?
Possibly, but it's going to be a lot of work to do it. It's probably easier and safer to tap off an existing circuit or run a new one.

The power for the controls on your new all-gas (it sounds like the oven is too) range can come from one of the two 20A small appliance branch circuits that supply your countertop receptacles. You can run the wiring down and back up, if there's a basement or crawl space below your kitchen, or up and back down, if there an unfinished attic above it, to get the power where you need it.

Alternatively, you can run a new circuit from the panel. Probably still easier than converting the existing setup.

Tell us what you have now and we'll go from there.
 
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Old 09-17-13, 03:02 PM
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I do have a crawl space (which is separated by my garage from the circuit panel. Normally what I would do is tie into one of the existing outlets, however I believe all of them are run in serial to either each other and then to under cabinet lighting. As far as running a new circuit, that would probably be out of my skill range because how difficult my attic is to access (tall ceilings) and I would probably have to remove the drywall to run a new wire down to the circuit panel. I could possibly tie into my microwave outlet, but I believe it is recommended to have that as a designated circuit.
 
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Old 09-17-13, 03:20 PM
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I do have a crawl space (which is separated by my garage from the circuit panel. As far as running a new circuit, that would probably be out of my skill range because how difficult my attic is to access (tall ceilings) and I would probably have to remove the drywall to run a new wire down to the circuit panel.
OK, no new circuit.

I could possibly tie into my microwave outlet, but I believe it is recommended to have that as a designated circuit.
If it's a built-in appliance, then yes.

Normally what I would do is tie into one of the existing outlets, however I believe all of them are run in serial to either each other and then to under cabinet lighting.
AC power is not wired in series. You should have two dedicated 20A circuits with GFCI protection serving receptacles spaced no more than 4' apart above your counter. Each of those circuits is probably wired as a daisy-chain (not series). No switch-controlled lighting should be tied into either circuit.

If the required protection is provided by a couple of GFCI receptacles above the counter, I would pick the easier one of those to start from. The cable for your new receptacle will go down and back up. The box for the GFCI receptacle will be removed to give you access and replaced with an old-work box once the cable is in place. Since the new receptacle doesn't need GFCI protection, the feed for it can come from the LINE terminals on the GFCI.
 
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Old 09-17-13, 06:38 PM
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I do have 20 amp GFCI receptacles above the counter and I would estimate that they are about 4 ft apart which is what my first thought was to tie into.

The box for the GFCI receptacle will be removed to give you access and replaced with an old-work box once the cable is in place. Since the new receptacle doesn't need GFCI protection, the feed for it can come from the LINE terminals on the GFCI.
However, I still have the problem that these are daisy chained to something which in my limited knowledge means that power is coming in and there is already a feed on the line terminal (which is what I assume the daisy chain is). I assumed it was the under cabinet lighting because it was right beside it. How can I tie into the line terminals if there is already a load line on them?
 
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Old 09-17-13, 06:56 PM
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How can I tie into the line terminals if there is already a load line on them?
Best way is pigtails. With most GFCIs you can usually put two wires on each terminal. You do have to watch box fill so you use a deep old work box.

Code note: Except for box fill nothing prevents receptacle feeding two or even three other outlets*. Feeding two is common.

However if the lights are on the circuit it is best to move them to their own circuit. Do they go out when you turn off the SAB circuits.

*Outlets as defined by the NEC.
 
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Old 09-17-13, 07:29 PM
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However if the lights are on the circuit it is best to move them to their own circuit. Do they go out when you turn off the SAB circuits.
So the lights are on their own circuit (yeah). Great idea ray2047 on checking what was connected already. Each GFCI has two non-GFCI outlets connected to it on the opposite side of my kitchen. There is another GFCI outlet on the opposite side of my kitchen from my stove that did not act like it was connected to anything (granted I didn't pull it out of the wall tonight to check). If it doesn't have anything connected it would probably be easy to connect to it's line terminals without having to pigtail anything and just run it through my crawl space. Otherwise I will do the pigtail option as long as that is still ok to do with 2 other receptacles being fed.

Thanks for your help!!!
(Anybody need an electric range )
 
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Old 09-17-13, 08:15 PM
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I do have 20 amp GFCI receptacles above the counter and I would estimate that they are about 4 ft apart which is what my first thought was to tie into.
OK, that's what you need to do.

However, I still have the problem that these are daisy chained to something which in my limited knowledge means that power is coming in and there is already a feed on the line terminal (which is what I assume the daisy chain is).
No, the wires connected to the LINE terminals are either bringing power in from the panel (that's what "Line" means) or feeding unprotected (not GFCI protected) power out to another load. The daisy chain for the standard receptacles above your counter starts with a cable that has its insulated conductors terminated to the LOAD terminals on the GFCI receptacle. That's how they get GFCI protection.

I assumed it was the under cabinet lighting because it was right beside it.
It shouldn't be.
Originally Posted by ray2047
Do [your countertop lights] go out when you turn off [either of] the SAB circuits?
How can I tie into the line terminals if there is already a load line on them?
Line doesn't mean either a cable or a wire. See above.
Originally Posted by ray2047
With most GFCIs you can... put two wires on each terminal.
If the GFCI receptacle you choose to work with already has two wires on each LINE terminal, you'll have to splice those together and add a pigtail to feed the receptacle.

Everything here should be part of a 20A circuit, so only use 12AWG wiring.
 

Last edited by Nashkat1; 09-17-13 at 08:32 PM.
  #9  
Old 09-18-13, 05:56 AM
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I do have 20 amp GFCI receptacles above the counter
The GFCI and duplex receptacles above the counter only need to be 15 amp rated devices as they are also rated for 20 amp feed-through, but there is nothing in the code prohibiting 20 amp devices on any 20 amp circuit. If you already have 20 amp GFCI devices, I'd keep them rather than change them.
 
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Old 09-19-13, 03:08 PM
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First let me say that I appreciate all the replies. I am learning a lot (granted I look like an idiot in the process, but that is part of learning). Had the opportunity today to pull out the other GFCI receptacle. It is also attached to something else (not sure what), so I am back to the pigtail option. As I mentioned before each of the GFCI receptacles are connected to two other outlets on the opposite side of my kitchen.

Best way is pigtails. With most GFCIs you can usually put two wires on each terminal. You do have to watch box fill so you use a deep old work box.
The work box is attached to a stud behind the tile back splash, so I am not sure how to remove the work box to put a deeper one in.

Code note: Except for box fill nothing prevents receptacle feeding two or even three other outlets*. Feeding two is common.
From this statement I am assuming there are no code violations with 3 outlets being fed by the receptacle. However, I assume this will increase the likelihood of tripping the breaker.
 
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Old 09-19-13, 05:49 PM
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It is also attached to something else (not sure what), so I am back to the pigtail option.
Be careful, it sounds as if there are more receptacles downstream being provided GFCI protection from this device. If you pigtail all leads to the load side, you just lost the downstream GFCI protection.
 
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Old 09-19-13, 05:53 PM
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It is probably nailed to the stud. Cut the nails by running a Sawzall between the box and the stud. (Use a wrecking blade If you don't have a Sawzall buy a wrecking blade and wrap the end with duct tape to make a handle for using it as a hand saw.
 
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