Panel to Sub

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Old 10-03-13, 02:26 PM
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Panel to Sub

House was built in 1959. I have a 100 amp service and panel in the house. My issue is that I was going to put a 220 30 amp breaker in the garage subpanel. When I went to do this I notice that the garage panel is only feed from one leg of the service to the house. When I opened up the panel in the house I see that the leg to the garage isnt feed from a breaker but is connected to one of the lugs. Also the airconditioner is being feed in the same way. Is that right?

The garage does have a 30 amp shut off/disconnect. I am not an electrician, but am handy, and that doesnt seem right to me. So based on that to get 220 out to the garage I would have to run another leg from my panel to the garage also?
 
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Old 10-03-13, 03:32 PM
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If you mean the the lugs on the main beaker and if the panel has the first overcurrent protection device fixing this major code violation is not a DIY job..

!20 comes from a neutral and a single pole breaker and 240 comes from a 2 pole breaker. 120/240 which is what your garage needs comes from a 2 pole breaker and a neutral. Look at the subpanels here: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...-diagrams.html to get a beter idea.

First though we need to know if this is an attached garage or a detached garage and if it is supplied by cable or conduit.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 10-03-13 at 09:22 PM. Reason: Misread original post.
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Old 10-03-13, 07:01 PM
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When I opened up the panel in the house I see that the leg to the garage isnt feed from a breaker but is connected to one of the lugs. Also the airconditioner is being feed in the same way. Is that right?
No, that isn't right and is a fire hazard, those circuits have absolutely NO overcurrent protection. If you had a short develop, the wire would have to burn through to clear the fault and would probably set your house on fire in the process. A fuse or circuit breaker is a pre-determined weak sacrificial link to safely open the circuit in the event of overload or a fault. It is very important to get those circuits removed from the panel lugs immediately. Then, answer ray's questions and you will be given the correct instructions for a safe installation.
 
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Old 10-03-13, 07:21 PM
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Original content of post was based on a misread and I retract it. Double lugging is so wrong my mind just didn't process it correctly when I first read it. Some comments below are based on my original thought you meant the neutral bar.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 10-03-13 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 10-03-13, 07:36 PM
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I hope you are right ray, but that's not the way I read it. The OP has a 120 volt service to his garage and then what bothered me was this.

I see that the leg to the garage isnt feed from a breaker but is connected to one of the lugs.
It sure sounds like a double lugged main to me.
 
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Old 10-03-13, 08:17 PM
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When I opened up the panel in the house I see that the leg to the garage isnt feed from a breaker but is connected to one of the lugs. Also the airconditioner is being feed in the same way. Is that right?
It soumds to me like you're saying the ungrounded conductors for the subpanel in your garage and your A/C are not fed from circuit breakers. They are, instead, somehow added directly to the unfused feed from the power company. IOW, I agree with Joe's interpretation of your post. If we're wrong about that, please tell us what the actual situation is.

sticking with Joe's interpretation for now, I also agree with his advice:
Originally Posted by CasualJoe
No, that isn't right and is a fire hazard, those circuits have absolutely NO overcurrent protection. If you had a short develop, the wire would have to burn through to clear the fault and would probably set your house on fire in the process. A fuse or circuit breaker is a pre-determined weak sacrificial link to safely open the circuit in the event of overload or a fault. It is very important to get those circuits removed from the panel lugs immediately.
Have you done that yet? Better yet, have you called an electrician to schedule having it done?

Tech Note: The feed lugs in a main distribution panel with the first overcurrent protection device in it are always hot unless there is a power outage. Working with those is not a DIY job.

And we still need the answers to Ray's questions.
 
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Old 10-03-13, 09:16 PM
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I see that the leg to the garage isn't feed from a breaker but is connected to one of the lugs.
Joe, Nash, you are right I am wrong. Third post today I have misread I think it's time for a vacation. My original post has been edited.
 
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