Can you paint NM-B wire?

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  #1  
Old 10-04-13, 01:07 PM
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Can you paint NM-B wire?

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I haven't found a definite answer yet. Can you paint NM-B wire indoors?
 
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  #2  
Old 10-04-13, 01:24 PM
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Well since NM-b wire needs to be protected when installed it should not be anywhere that requires it to be painted. Please give us more details.
 
  #3  
Old 10-04-13, 01:29 PM
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Running down the wall from panel through the main floor to basement. Does it need to be run in conduit then? Can conduit be painted?
 
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Old 10-04-13, 01:36 PM
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NM-b should be run in the wall. You can not run it on the face of a wall. You can sleeve it in conduit. If it is an uninterrupted run of conduit from the panel to a junction box NM-b can be used but best practice is individual conductors such as THHN/THWN.

Yes conduit can be painted. If looks are important you might want to use a surface raceway such as Wiremold.
 
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Old 10-04-13, 01:47 PM
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So, I can sleeve it in conduit on the face of the wall as long as it is uninterrupted. Would I use 3/4" conduit for running one 8-2 wire?
 
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Old 10-04-13, 03:54 PM
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Yes....you can use the conduit as a mechanical raceway.
You would physically have to measure the width of 8-2 cable but it may need to be in a 1" pipe.
 
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Old 10-04-13, 04:55 PM
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Can you use PVC? It is for protection purposes.
 
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Old 10-04-13, 04:57 PM
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Yes, you can use PVC. Just curious what are you running 8-2 for?
 
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Old 10-04-13, 05:19 PM
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Well pump. 240v only. Might add something else later.
 
  #10  
Old 10-04-13, 05:41 PM
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Can I staple/clip/tie the wire in the basement along the joists in the open(there are no walls) or must I use conduit there too?
 
  #11  
Old 10-04-13, 05:57 PM
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Well pump. 240v only. Might add something else later.
If you might add something that will use 120V you need to run 8-3/G to a subpanel. Why do you need to use 8AWG? What is the amp draw of the pump and how long is the run?

Can I staple/clip/tie the wire in the basement along the joists in the open(there are no walls) or must I use conduit there too?
You can support NM-B every 4' or less along the centerline of the side of a joist.
 
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Old 10-04-13, 06:27 PM
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If you might add something that will use 120V you need to run 8-3/G to a subpanel. Why do you need to use 8AWG? What is the amp draw of the pump and how long is the run?
I'm not going to add anything that will use 120v. I might add a 4000 watt max 240v heater and maybe a 240v hot water heater later. The pump only draws max 6 amps. About a 220 ft run. The heater would just be for backup to my propane heat if I'm gone for a few days in the winter. Then I'd shut the pump off. So they would probably never be running at the same time. But I figured if I did run all three at the same time that 8 gauge with a 40 amp time delay fuse in the Range box feeding the subpanel would handle it. All 3 would have their separate circuit breakers in the subpanel.
 
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Old 10-04-13, 07:29 PM
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The pump only draws max 6 amps. About a 220 ft run.
Then it should be on a 15 amp breaker and the #8 is way over size and may not even fit the breaker.

I might add a 4000 watt max 240v heater and maybe a 240v hot water heater later.
The water heater should be on a 30 amp dedicated circuit wired with #10. Best practice the room heater should also be on a dedicated circuit.

What you want to do is best done using at least a 240 only subpanel but for only slightly more in cable cost you can future proof it by using 8-3 and a 120/240 subpanel.
 
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Old 10-04-13, 08:25 PM
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Then it should be on a 15 amp breaker and the #8 is way over size and may not even fit the breaker.
The #8 will be feeding the subpanel, but the pump itself will be fed by 12-2 wire from a breaker on the subpanel. That should be allright?
 
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Old 10-04-13, 08:29 PM
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I'm not going to add anything that will use 120v.
Really? Ever? No light or receptacle?

I might add a 4000 watt max 240v heater and maybe a 240v hot water heater later. The pump only draws max 6 amps. About a 220 ft run. The heater would just be for backup to my propane heat if I'm gone for a few days in the winter. Then I'd shut the pump off. So they would probably never be running at the same time. But I figured if I did run all three at the same time that 8 gauge with a 40 amp time delay fuse in the Range box feeding the subpanel would handle it. All 3 would have their separate circuit breakers in the subpanel.
With the total load you've described, 8AWG on a 40A breaker is cutting it kinda thin. I'd go with a 60A breaker and 6AWG copper feeders - and I would only run it with three power-carrying conductors and a ground.

This sounds like a set of appliances on the other side of the basement from your panel, but 220' sounds like a run to a separate structure. Is it?

I figured if I did run all three at the same time that 8 gauge with a 40 amp time delay fuse in the Range box feeding the subpanel would handle it.
OK. I'm confused. The Range box? What is that?
 
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Old 10-04-13, 08:50 PM
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Really? Ever? No light or receptacle?
I already have 120v lights down there.

This sounds like a set of appliances on the other side of the basement from your panel, but 220' sounds like a run to a separate structure. Is it?
No, it's a short run (maybe 15 ft.) from my fuse panel to a subpanel in the basement. It's a very small house.

OK. I'm confused. The Range box? What is that?
I have an older fuse panel (probably 1950's) that has a MAIN fuse block and a RANGE fuse block and 4 120v fuses. I have nothing running off the 240v RANGE block so I'm running a #8 wire protected by a 40 amp time delay to a subpanel in the basement which will have circuit breakers matched to whatever it feeds.
 
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Old 10-04-13, 09:06 PM
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it's a short run (maybe 15 ft.) from my fuse panel to a subpanel in the basement. It's a very small house.
OK. That's a different matter from
About a 220 ft run.
I have an older fuse panel (probably 1950's) that has a MAIN fuse block and a RANGE fuse block and 4 120v fuses. I have nothing running off the 240v RANGE block so I'm running a #8 wire protected by a 40 amp time delay to a subpanel in the basement which will have circuit breakers matched to whatever it feeds.
Since you already have all of the 120V circuits that you'll need available, yes, you can make this new subpanel 240V only (no neutral). Without doing a load calculation, I'd still go with 6AWG copper conductors protected at 60A to feed it.
 
  #18  
Old 10-04-13, 09:16 PM
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About a 220 ft run.
It's about a 220 ft. run from the subpanel to the submersible pump in the well, which will be fed by 12-2 wire.
 
  #19  
Old 10-04-13, 09:35 PM
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It's about a 220 ft. run from the subpanel to the submersible pump in the well, which will be fed by 12-2 wire.
That'll work. 14-2/G on a 15A breaker would actually be large enough, as Ray said earlier.
 
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Old 10-05-13, 05:50 AM
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Yes....you can use the conduit as a mechanical raceway.
You would physically have to measure the width of 8-2 cable but it may need to be in a 1" pipe.
How about flexible conduit for indoor use? Can I use that?
 
  #21  
Old 10-05-13, 06:51 AM
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No, it's a short run (maybe 15 ft.) from my fuse panel to a subpanel in the basement. It's a very small house.
If the run to the subpanel is just 15 feet, I wouldn't even consider NOT running a neutral conductor.

How deep is the pump?
 
  #22  
Old 10-05-13, 06:58 AM
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Well, the main reason I didn't go with 8-3 is because I've really got to bend the cable and get it through the 3/8 clamp connector without wrecking to much of the drywall. Using the 8-2 was hard enough. If I used 8-3 I might even have to go to the next size clamp connector and a bigger knockout hole. This would involve tearing a bigger hole in the drywall. It's a flush mounted older panel and I have to dig a little bit of the drywall out to access a side knockout. That's why I decided to go with 8-2. The main thing I want this cable for is to run my 240v pump
 
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Old 10-05-13, 07:05 AM
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How deep is the pump? ............................................
 
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Old 10-05-13, 07:30 AM
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The pump will be around 200 ft down.
 
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Old 10-05-13, 09:20 AM
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Well, the main reason I didn't go with 8-3 is because I've really got to bend the cable and get it through the 3/8 clamp connector without wrecking to much of the drywall. Using the 8-2 was hard enough.
Instead of cable just cut an opening in the Sheetrock for a 4x4 box flush with the wall and connect it to the panel with a short nipple. Add an extension ring to the junction box and run conduit all the way to the new subpanel. Then use THHN/THWN individual wires between the two panels.

Small complaint here you made this more confusing then it had to be by saying you were running the cable for a pump instead of for a subpanel. Mentioning a 6 amp pump and 8-2 initially confused the issue. Had you said subpanel from the beginning the replies might have been different.
 
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Old 10-05-13, 09:27 AM
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The pump only draws max 6 amps. About a 220 ft run.

The pump will be around 200 ft down.
Is the 200 foot pump depth included in the 220 foot run?
 
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Old 10-05-13, 09:31 AM
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Is the 200 foot pump depth included in the 220 foot run?
Yes .
 
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Old 10-05-13, 09:34 AM
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Small complaint here you made this more confusing then it had to be by saying you were running the cable for a pump instead of for a subpanel. Mentioning a 6 amp pump and 8-2 initially confused the issue. Had you said subpanel from the beginning the replies might have been different.
Yeah, sorry about that. I kind of went through this all on another thread but figured I should start a new thread to ask about if I could paint NM-B. That's really all I wanted to know.
 
  #29  
Old 10-05-13, 10:16 AM
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Instead of cable just cut an opening in the Sheetrock for a 4x4 box flush with the wall and connect it to the panel with a short nipple. Add an extension ring to the junction box and run conduit all the way to the new subpanel. Then use THHN/THWN individual wires between the two panels.
That's an idea. But there's a stud in the way for a 4x4 box, but a smaller one might work. If you were running #8 NM-B, would you run #8 THHN?
 
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Old 10-05-13, 11:31 AM
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Sorry I look at a lot of posts. I usually don't remember who wrote what.

If you were running #8 NM-B, would you run #8 THHN?l
Yes, except for the ground. The ground could be #10. You could use a single gang box if you can find one that has 3/4" holes and did not splice in the box.
 
  #31  
Old 10-05-13, 11:35 AM
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OK, thanks everyone for their help!
 
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