> >
>

Can a ceiling fan box (with fan installed, of course) be used as a junction box

Can a ceiling fan box (with fan installed, of course) be used as a junction box

#1
10-09-13, 09:06 AM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 349
Can a ceiling fan box (with fan installed, of course) be used as a junction box

for another circuit?

I am re-wiring a room and I have two BX cables form another room that were joined together in a box that was used for lighting in the re-wired room. Re-wiring the two cables (to the other room) is out of the question.

Thanks.

#2
10-09-13, 09:14 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 29,711
It is allowed if box capcity is large enough.
tsunclebill
The number of wires allowed in a box is determined by the size of the box and the size of the wire. Plastic boxes are marked with the maximum number of each size wire. Metal and other material boxs fill is based on the box size in cubic inches and the required space for each conductor size.

#14 wire require 2 cubic inches each. All the grounds together count as 1 wire. In your case, 6 cables with 2 wires each plus a ground requires a box that is big enough for 13 #14 wires. This winds up being a 4 X 4 X 2-1/8 (or deeper) metal box, or a plastic box rated for 13 or more #14 wires.

Generally, the number of connections in a box doesn't matter as the required space in a box for a given size wire takes connections into account. [...]

#3
10-09-13, 11:02 AM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 349
And I assume combining BX and Romex in the same box is OK, right? As long as I use the correct connectors of course.

#4
10-09-13, 11:20 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 29,711
And I assume combining BX and Romex in the same box is OK, right? As long as I use the correct connectors of course.
Yes, if Romex is allowed in your jurisdiction. Note the box must be metal because of the BX.

#5
10-09-13, 11:31 AM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 349
Yes, the box will have to be metal because it will hold a ceiling fan.

Thanks!!

#6
10-09-13, 11:39 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 29,711
And must be rated for a ceiling fan.

#7
10-09-13, 01:12 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 36,607
Eeew, you shouldn't have said that, Ray. New flies in the ointment. See what he is talking about here:

or

#8
10-09-13, 01:32 PM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 349
Larry, can you please elaborate on this?

#9
10-09-13, 02:34 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 36,607
Yes, a regular junction or octagon box has the light affixed to bent over ears tapped with 6 or 8-32 screws. Attaching a ceiling fan to a box will require the box to have an additional "through" attachment point. As you can see on both boxes the ears are not the attachment point, but there are provided nuts or and through bolts or screw acceptors to hold the brace, and they take 10-24 screws (larger)

Last edited by ray2047; 10-09-13 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Change 24 to 32
#10
10-09-13, 04:28 PM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 349
Right. The old setup was a very old box with a light fixture. I need to get rid of this box and put a bigger box that is also rated for a ceiling fan. By all means I did not intend to use the light box for the ceiling fan. Reason I asked is that the two BX cables need to be in a box somewhere, they will reach the new box (where the old one was) and I wasn't sure if the ceiling fan box can be used also as a junction box for the old BX cables (in addition to the new single Romex for the fan). Hope it's clear and makes sense.

#11
10-09-13, 05:52 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 13,985
As Ray said, as long as the fan box has spare cubic inch capacity and is fan rated you are fine. IMO I would try to keep the other circuits out of the fan box if practical for troubleshooting reasons.

#12
10-10-13, 09:09 AM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 349
This would be ideal of course, but the only problem is that in order to do that I need to keep an opening in the drywall for the that junction box.

#13
10-15-13, 02:17 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 7,458
Is there an attic above this ceiling, or a finished floor?

#14
10-22-13, 01:03 PM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 349
There is attic, but with no access to this room from above.

#15
10-22-13, 01:48 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 7,458
There is attic, but with no access to this room from above.
I don't understand. Can you go into your attic and put your hand on the old fixture box that you want to replace?

If so, you can mount a new box there to use to splice the two BX cables together. If not, you should be able to install a fan-rated box that's deep enough to provide room for the extra conductors and splices.

To answer your original question, yes, you can use a box that a ceiling fan is mounted on to splice a different circuit through, so long as it's big enough.
Originally Posted by pcboss
As Ray said, as long as the fan box has spare cubic inch capacity and is fan rated you are fine.
Three of us have said that now.

#16
10-23-13, 06:54 AM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 349
Can you go into your attic and put your hand on the old fixture box that you want to replace?
No, I cannot. There is a "room" kind'a, it's a storage room, built right above it.

In any case, I did gut the entire room that I am working on, took out all the old plaster and lath and insulation in the ceiling, so everything is exposed. Part of the reason was to replace the old pull-chain light with a ceiling fan and a normal, modern switch light. That's why I asked if I can use the ceiling fan box to 'host' this other BX cable.
And yes, I did get the deeper ceiling fan box, I believe it's 18 cu. inch or something in that area.

#17
10-23-13, 08:19 AM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 397
If everything is down and exposed, why not go the extra expense and run new wires so there is no need for a junction box? (granted, I'm making huge assumptions on the length of cables required, etc.)

#18
10-23-13, 09:02 AM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 349
Because these two wires are coming from/going to the adjacent room, I don't know if they are stapled to the floor joists or how they run, and frankly I don't even know where they are going (I just assume based on their direction). And there is no way I rip the wall/ceiling out and mess with this disgusting insulation in the 2nd room