NYC 2 x 40 amp Service?

Reply

  #1  
Old 10-22-13, 06:10 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 3
NYC 2 x 40 amp Service?

Hello. I just recently purchased a 3-family house in NYC and the electrical is a fuse box setup. I would like to explain the current history and setup of the house to hopefully give you guys a picture (will post pictures later today when I get home).

The house was built in 1910. The bank and insurance approved the purchase and provided coverage. ConEdison came in to install 3 meters as recently as 2010 as my meters are all digital. The service line comes overhead and goes down to the basement with 2 blacks and 1 white cable. The service line directly goes to a box that asks as a Main cutoff switch with 1 side having a 30 amp fuse and the other side having a 15amp fuse. From the cutoff box, the wires then go to all 3 meters. From the meters, the wire goes to the fuse boxes that all have either a 20 amp and a 15 amp fuse for individual circuits.. I do not see any 60 amp or 100 amp fuses anywhere at all unlike what I am used to with circuit breakers where there is a 100 amp breaker to act as a Main and then divided to individual circuits.

I had 3 electricians come buy to give an estimate and the price varies greatly from $7k,10k and 24k. The latest electrician that came to inspect stated that my service line is only 80 amps with two black cables and 1 white cable and each black cable carries 40 amps and that is because the wires are 8 gauge. I thought that the lowest possible amperes is 60 amps. Is it possible as this puts me in a situation? Unfortunately cannot afford $7k just for electrical upgrade. The original plan was to just upgrade the fuse boxes to 100 amp panels and then upgrade the service in a few months to something higher.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-22-13, 06:44 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 32,659
electrician that came to inspect stated that my service line is only 80 amps with two black cables and 1 white cable and each black cable carries 40 amps and that is because the wires are 8 gauge.
You don't add the current on each leg. If each leg is 40 amps then that is what you have, 40 amps. If it is #8 then the maximum the wire can carry is 40 amp.

The service line comes overhead and goes down to the basement with 2 blacks and 1 white cable. The service line directly goes to a box that asks as a Main cutoff switch with 1 side having a 30 amp fuse and the other side having a 15amp fuse.
That makes no sense. We need to see the inside of the box.

Is this wiring in metal conduit? http://www.doityourself.com/forum/li...-pictures.html

Since you have your own meter what I would expect an electrician to suggest is a a 100 amp fused disconnect* at the meter and a three or four wire feed** in metal conduit to a 100 amp breaker panel for your apartment.

*Fused disconnect is a general term. Usually a breaker not a fuse is used.

**With metal conduit the conduit can serve as ground therefore only three wires needed but it is not a bad idea to add a fourth wire for ground. If PVC conduit is allowed in NYC and is used then a fourth wire is required by code.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 10-22-13 at 07:17 AM.
  #3  
Old 10-22-13, 07:35 AM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,213
What exactly is the question? Without knowing the question, I can say that you definitely need the service to all 3 units upgraded. As you consider this you must look at each of the 3 proposals and read them carefully. A good detailed proposal will tell you exactly what each electrician is proposing to install and how it will be installed. There are probably restrictions in NYC that are much different than found in most areas of the U.S. They may or may not allow the new meters to be in the basement, but that's usually a power company rule. Regardless, a local electrical contractor will know what those restrictions and requirements are.
 
  #4  
Old 10-22-13, 11:04 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 3
What exactly is the question? Without knowing the question, I can say that you definitely need the service to all 3 units upgraded
Is it possible that my service line are 2 x 40 amps as the 3rd electrician said or that is incorrect. The meters say it is a "100 amp" line but could also mean it is rated upto 100 amps. My original plan as suggested by the first two electricians was to upgrade the fuse box to a main 200amp breaker and split to the 3 separate panels/meters. This would be alot cheaper and barely any downtime compared to an overhaul of my electrical system if it is 2 x 40 amps which require permits and inspections on both sides that could mean i significant amount of time with no power.
 
  #5  
Old 10-22-13, 11:51 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 32,659
As I stated your system is 40 amps. You don't multiply the legs. It is only good for 40 amps because it is #8.

How is each meter tied to the Edison drop. Is it a wiring tryy with three meters or what?

Name:  collage_lb_image_page26_4_1.jpg
Views: 321
Size:  17.6 KB
 
  #6  
Old 10-22-13, 11:58 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 3
I own all three meters. I will post pictures as soon as I get home. Just that I wanted to upgrade all of them to circuit panels. What you stated is much easier and will see how I can get that accomplished as soon as possible. I just wanted clarification if it is true that there are 40 amps service off the main line since the previous 2 electricians said the service is rated 100amps. I just never heard of 40 amp service line thats why. I always heard 60 amps or higher.
 
  #7  
Old 10-22-13, 01:19 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,213
just wanted clarification if it is true that there are 40 amps service off the main line since the previous 2 electricians said the service is rated 100amps. I just never heard of 40 amp service line thats why. I always heard 60 amps or higher.
I suspect the first two electricians were right that you have 100 amp services, but the meters in the basement complicate this and make it a confusing issue. It's entirely possible the power company is bringing power to the building and into the basement meters based upon actual load which many times means much smaller wiring coming to the meter on the line side than your 100 amp wiring on the load side. Regardless, whatever you decide to do with the services will have to be permitted and inspected to be done right.
 
  #8  
Old 10-22-13, 01:26 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
I own all three meters... Just that I wanted to upgrade all of them to circuit panels.
You can do that. Are you planning to keep the house divided into three separate units, each with its own service and meter?
 
  #9  
Old 10-22-13, 02:24 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 32,659
I just never heard of 40 amp service line thats why.
Then your just not old enough. Once upon a time there were 30 amp services so maybe yours was upgraded to 40 or maybe the wire is #10 not #8.
 
  #10  
Old 10-22-13, 03:11 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,374
I own all three meters.
Does this mean that the utility power comes into a single meter from which you are billed and then you have sub-meters from which you bill the tenants?
 
  #11  
Old 10-22-13, 07:15 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,213
Then your just not old enough. Once upon a time there were 30 amp services so maybe yours was upgraded to 40 or maybe the wire is #10 not #8.
That's right, ray. Probably not many on this forum have seen a 30 amp 120 volt 2 wire service to a house.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'