Simple push button install advice-atv

Reply

  #1  
Old 10-22-13, 01:23 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Simple push button install advice-atv

I have posted this question on several atv forums, with no replies..I have a key for the ignition switch, but my push button/electric start is not functioning..I ordered a momentary push button switch to install..my question is, how should I wire this up?? There are 2 small "control" wires coming off the bottom of the starter relay (solenoid)..should I just run either side of my push button switch to each of these small wires?? I have read one of the wires need to be ran to a ground.if anyone would like a wiring diagram I can post a link when I get home..thanks and if anyone needs more info ask away
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-22-13, 01:31 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NJ - USA
Posts: 43,494
Definitely post a link. We'll give you a hand.
 
  #3  
Old 10-22-13, 04:33 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 11
ok..took a pic of a pdf file from service manual..it may kinda hard to read..an alternative is to download the service manual (around 20 mb), not to big, and look at the that way, probably much more clearer..either way i just want to give you guys a readable diagram

so here's the link to pic on photobuck (not the best quality)

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/...ine/photo1.jpg

here's the link to download the entire manual if anybody cares to do so

Yamaha ATV Service Manuals QUADCRAZY ATV Forums

it is the 8th link down (99-04 yamaha wolverine)

if using only the photobucket pic, the white area is the start circuit..i will try and label the numbered components so you will know what you are looking at

#9 cdi
#12 rear brake switch
#7 start circuit cut off relay
#6 battery
#5 starter motor
#3 fuse
#4 starter relay (solenoid)
#23 push button
#22 kill switch

like i said i just want to put in a seperate push button switch, not using the wiring for the old push button...run new wires from the switch, to whereever i need to go..(i'm guessing what they call the starter relay but what i call the solenoid..thanks guys and i wish i could get better diagram for you all, but if someone wants to downoad that service manual, you can see it alot more clearly, in ch 8
thanks in advance

i ordered i waterproof momentary push button, and was told to use 14 guage wire
 
  #4  
Old 10-22-13, 05:40 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NJ - USA
Posts: 43,494
I'm downloading the manual thru a drinking straw
May take an hour or so.
 
  #5  
Old 10-22-13, 06:16 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Thanks for showing and interest..I can't even get a single reply on the atv forums I've posted on..even using the search function I couldn't find an answer
 
  #6  
Old 10-22-13, 06:43 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NJ - USA
Posts: 43,494
Awesome manual. A manual like that is not usually available without a hefty charge.

I'm guessing you have the manual there. The page you're interested in is page 329.
You'll see part 3 (starter relay) and part 6 (START switch).

Your start switch connects the R/W (red/white) wire to ground to start. So on your new switch.... one terminal will go to ground and the other terminal will go to the side of the starter relay where the R/W connects.

That's it.



PS..... that service manual is over 85 megs..... like 400+ pages
 

Last edited by PJmax; 10-22-13 at 09:34 PM. Reason: added a PS
  #7  
Old 10-23-13, 04:07 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Wow, I could have swore when I checked my manual it was only a fraction of that size..i can't thank u enough for helping me out here..and I had a feeling I needed to go directly to ground with one side, but I'm not good enough at reading wire diagrams to be for sure..I am a first year student in electrical engineering, and this simple push button has kicked my but for a few weeks now..I have tried trouble shooting to find out what was going on, to no avail..when I tested that red white wire I had 12+ volts, when I pressed the start button that voltage dropped, relay would not click or anything..(that is the second "new" relay I've put on it recently)..for some reason I was getting nothing on the blue/white wire to relay..so I finally just said to heck with it I'll just put a new button with new wiring and it will fire as long as I get the wiring right..I ask one of my "smarter" classmates and he told me to run the wires to either side of that solenoid..glad I checked here first..again, thanks for your help on this..I'm still a little "let down" because I could not find the reason for the original problem, but now I can at least have my electric start back..and for anyone that owns a yamaha atv or side by side, check that page, they have all kinds of service manuals, for free
 
  #8  
Old 10-23-13, 08:01 AM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NJ - USA
Posts: 43,494
when I tested that red white wire I had 12+ volts, when I pressed the start button that voltage dropped, relay would not click or anything.
Yes....you will see 12v on that R/W wire because you are reading the voltage thru the solenoid coil. The R/W wire should drop to 0v when pushing the start button.

You need to check for 12v on the B/W wire. That voltage should stay there when you push the start button. It will drop slightly as coil engages and drop even more as the starter engages but it shouldn't drop below battery voltage.
 
  #9  
Old 10-23-13, 09:25 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Ok so r/w wire is functioning properly..I was not getting any voltage on the b/w wire..if I remember correctly this wire came from start circuit cut off relay..i read that for the start circuit cut of relay to energize the b/w wire, the Cdi had to internally ground a black/yellow (could have been yellow/black) wire..why that wasn't happening is the reason for my original start button not to function..I tested the actual button, and it was fine..my kill switch was/is functioning properly, and key switch was functioning properly..I went through the manual, and the only component I didn't test (because I couldn't even find the thing) was the brake switch...I even inspected every inch and connector of the wiring harness..so it left the brake switch or the Cdi (which there is no known test for)..since a Cdi is so expensive, I just decided to run a seperate start button..the bike runs fine and starts with the first pull of the rope/pull start..maybe next spring when I have more time, I will dive back into it and fix the real problem..but the weather is turning, I don't have a garage, I work full time and go to school full time, so a qui fix is all I need for now...I do want to make sure I am clear with the new button install, so I took a pic and will post it up, if you don't mind answering a question or to more.
 
  #10  
Old 10-23-13, 10:21 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Name:  image.jpg
Views: 6541
Size:  48.1 KB

Ok..so one side of my new switch will go to chassis ground..the other wire will go to the red/white wire on the bottom of relay...so what about the blue wire or "left" small post on the solenoid? Can I just unplug the white conmecter? I'm asking because the blue/white wire would normally need 12v, but isn't getting any voltage..I have another solenoid that I still need to test, that doesn't have the small posts exposed, they're internal.im not sure which I'm going to use yet..but I want to make sure I'm clear before I start soldering..also the small "right" side post on the solenoid above, spins..I fear it has broken loose on the inside..what would be a viable bench test to see if the solenoid is actually functional?? the one on my bike looks exactly like the one pictured..the one with the internal small posts is a factory solenoid, which I also need to test(I jumped it over several times with a screwdriver, I want to make sure I didn't permantly damage the internal contacts.
So-

1. What is a good bench test for the solenoid?
2. What do I do as far as the blue/white or small left post is concerned?
3. I have some 12guage wire handy, is this too large?
4. Do I just leave the white connector plugged, or unplugged?

Again, thanks for the help so far..one day I hope to be the guy with the knowledge to help others.
 
  #11  
Old 10-24-13, 01:09 AM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NJ - USA
Posts: 43,494
To test or activate that solenoid you need to apply 12 vdc to the two small terminals.
Some solenoids only have one small terminal and that terminal would need 12+ on it. The metal case of the unit would need to be grounded.

Everything you are working on is on page 329 of the manual. The B/W wire to the starter solenoid comes from the cutoff circuit relay that is connected to the CDI unit. That wire becomes 12v positive when the safety's are all ok.

So that means you probably have a safety that is not working. You confirm your safety switches with a meter at the CDI unit.

If you just want to check the starter solenoid on the ATV...... connect the B/W wire to the + battery terminal. When you push the button the starter will engage.

Use this as a test only. You don't want the ATV starting if there is a safety issue.

BTW....that loose terminal is an issue. Try tightening it up before testing.
 
  #12  
Old 10-24-13, 09:51 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 11
ok, so since that b/w wire is not getting the 12v it needs, when I wire my new switch up, I have to do it differently than what you said originally?? I need to get 12v to that b/w wire and I need the r/w wire to go from +12v to ground? or like you said above, I need 12v on both of those wire to engergize coil?
 
  #13  
Old 10-24-13, 10:11 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 11
and on the issue of the safeties..these Yamaha are notorious for problems from the parking brake...caused by the park brake to stick even when you have it disengaged, warping rotors (mine included), and causing crappy running conditions...i am in the process of deleting it altogether..there is a park brake bypass, as far a wiring is concerned, essentially taking it out of the circuit,..i reversed the "bypass" I had initially done, because for some reason, after a month of the bike running fine, I lost spark, completely..i wired it all back the way it should be, and I got spark back..I knew the blue white wire wasn't getting the 12v it needed, which was causing my start button not to function..i replaced ignitions coil, spark plug, start circuit cut off relay, starter solenoid relay, wired everything back to its original state..still no push button start...this is why I decided to install a separate switch..my confusion begins on how to get the solenoid to energize the starter, without relying on the cdi and start circuit cut off relay to supply the 12 volts needed...i am buying a back off plate to go in the place of the park brake assembly, and removing the p-brake lever and perch altogether..in the meantime, I want to run my new electric start to be independent from the rest of the start circuit..this is where I get confused on how to wire it up, because I am not gonna use any of the existing starting circuit for this new switch..all that being said, which method will serve my needs for this application??
 
  #14  
Old 10-24-13, 10:51 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 11
ok after looking at Pg 329 I see things more clearly..the blue/white and red/white are actually ends of the same wire with the coil inside the solenoid..blue white need 12v and r/w needs to be grounded..just like u said....i haven't decided whether to use the existing power wire going to main switch, or run a new power wire (with an inline fuse) then to new start switch to energize the blue/white

thanks for your patience and help on this
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'