Dishwasher Install - No Room in Panel

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  #1  
Old 11-02-13, 03:04 PM
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Dishwasher Install - No Room in Panel

First post here - I appreciate any help given. I have some basic electrical knowledge, have taken out permits and done my own - just have never done much with the actual panel.
I have a FPE Stab-lok panel which is currently full.
I would like to install a dishwasher (which requires a dedicated 20A circuit)
What are my options?
Current breakers (not sure if this is important) 1 @ 40 A Double Pole
1 @ 30 A Double Pole
1 @ 25 A Double Pole
3 @ 20 A Double Pole
3 @ 15 A Double Pole
6 @ 15 A Single Pole

Couple pics included just because.

Thanks!
 
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Old 11-02-13, 03:12 PM
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Also - In Guelph, Ontario, Canada
 
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Old 11-02-13, 04:01 PM
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It would appear your panel is surface mounted so it should be easy to add a subpanel. Not important to your question but is your picture rotated ninety degrees?

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Last edited by ray2047; 11-02-13 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 11-02-13, 04:23 PM
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Not important to your question but is your picture rotated ninety degrees?
I have seen quite a few shows that are based in Canada with panels sideways with no mention that it is wrong. It is not allowed in the US (without rendering half the panel useless) but I think it may be OK in Canada.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 11-02-13 at 04:30 PM. Reason: Correct typo in quote from my post.
  #5  
Old 11-02-13, 04:33 PM
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Perhaps also should be added that comments here about U.S. FPE panels don't necessarily apply to FPE panels made in Canada from what I have read.
 
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Old 11-02-13, 05:44 PM
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It would appear your panel is surface mounted so it should be easy to add a subpanel. Not important to your question but is your picture rotated ninety degrees?
Ray, I'd say the picture was not rotated 90 degrees and that the picture was correct as posted. I am looking at the 100 amp main breaker and where the word MAIN is printed above the main breaker handle. I do agree though, a subpanel is the way to go. 60 amps would work fine.

Perhaps also should be added that comments here about U.S. FPE panels don't necessarily apply to FPE panels made in Canada from what I have read.
Good point. Federal Pacific Electric is long gone while Federal Pioneer Electric is alive and well and a sister company to Square D.
 
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Old 11-03-13, 05:53 AM
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The pictures are rotated - panel is actually right side up - sorry for the confusion.
So far; sounds like a sub panel is the way to go. I was hoping to avoid that but ok.
I saw 60 A sub-panels at Home Depot for $40: Siemens | 60A Sub Panel Multi-application Loadcentre With 2/4 Circuits, Main Lug, 1 Phase, 3 Wire, 120/240V | Home Depot Canada
Something like this is most economical?
 
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Old 11-03-13, 06:12 AM
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Ray, you were right, the picture was rotated 90 degrees.


I think if I were to go to the trouble and expense of a subpanel I would want to add more than 4 circuit capability. I think you can probably find a 8 to 16 circuit panel for similar cost if you look. Don't forget, you'll also need a ground bar that may be sold separately. Some MLO panels come with them, but some don't. The Siemens panel you linked to has aluminum busbars, I'd also look for something with copper bus.
 
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Old 11-03-13, 07:46 AM
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Just to add to what Joe said. When we say 60 amp we are referring to the size breaker in the main panel not the subpanel. The subpanel would probably be a 100 amp panel. It can be either a main lug only or a main breaker panel, whichever is cheaper. Sometimes you can get a main breaker panel kit with breakers cheaper then a main lug only panel with no breakers.
 
  #10  
Old 11-03-13, 01:32 PM
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One other possibility is to use a twin circuit breaker (two breakers in one slot). The problem with this is that you say you need a 20A breaker and you have no other 20A single pole breakers. Will any of the existing circuits fed by a 15A single pole breaker support a 20A (it would require 12GA wire in the US)?
 
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Old 11-03-13, 01:57 PM
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Not all panels are listed for use with tandem breakers.

There are 15/20 tandems made.
 
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Old 11-03-13, 03:14 PM
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One other possibility is to use a twin circuit breaker (two breakers in one slot).
A twin, or tandem, breaker might work in some panels, but Federal Pioneer doesn't make a tandem breaker, just thick and thin styles like the old Federal Pacific. It appears to me that all of the breakers in the OP's panel are of the thin style, he needs a subpanel.
 
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