Outdoor outlet: basement through CMU/Brick

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Old 11-04-13, 06:55 AM
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Outdoor outlet: basement through CMU/Brick

Hi all,
Need an outdoor outlet in the front of the house. Front is brick over sheeting up top but carries down seamlessly over CMU for the basement all the way to grade. Full bricks, not the small veneer bricks.

Anyway, the basement is unfinished and I have a dedicated outlet for an old washing machine (the laundry is now in a different part of the house) that I can tap and not worry about overloading/sharing a circuit.

My question is about the actual installation. to go out at a good height above grade, I will be right through a CMU/block. Going through the sill / rim isn't an option as it would be too high. I have masonry tools and don't mind that part, it's the actual wiring and materials for such a job.

Am I correct in assuming that NM Romex can't just go through a hole in the CMU? So that means conduit, right? Access box on one side and surface mount on the outside, glued together?

I saw some recessed boxes that replace a brick and they looked nice, but since it backs to CMUs and not a cavity, I wasn't sure if I could use them. It's going to be behind a pretty big evergreen shrub, so looks aren't as important. Still want it to look professional, though.

Thanks for any advice.

Anthony
 
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Old 11-04-13, 07:51 AM
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Hi neighbor,

Am I correct in assuming that NM Romex can't just go through a hole in the CMU? So that means conduit, right? Access box on one side and surface mount on the outside, glued together?
No. You can feed the Type NM straight through the hole into the back of the box. I'd shoot a bit of foam filler where the NM enters the CMU as a last step.

I saw some recessed boxes that replace a brick and they looked nice, but since it backs to CMUs and not a cavity, I wasn't sure if I could use them.
You can do that if you want to. It's the SOP in new construction, and that's probably when the ones you've seen were installed.

The tricky part of doing this after the wall is finished is that an electrical box is +4" long, so you'll need to remove just half of one brick. Either that or, if you have a spare brick or can remove one intact, you can cut and fill around the box. The box gets mortared in, of course.

The surface mount will require a WP box, attached with screws through metal ears. I would use a WP NM clamp at the cable entry. That clamp and all of the screw-in KO seals should have a bit of clear silicone caulk - the stuff you can buy in a squeeze tube that's often used around tubs - on the threads before installing.

The flush mount should be done with a metal masonry box. I was thinking that you might need to go to a supply house for that, but maybe not: Raco Masonry Box 1-Gang 3-1/2 in. Deep.

In either case, the GFCI receptacle needs to be weather resistant (WR). Nothing is "glued together." A thin bead of the clear silicone caulk across the top and down each side of the seam where the in-use cover meets the box is a good precaution. Leave the bottom seam uncaulked for ventilation and drainage.
 
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Old 11-04-13, 10:18 AM
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Thanks. I'll probably stick with surface mount. I can't imagine us never having a shrub there, so it's not worth the effort.

Can you recommend any boxes you like (brands, etc)? There seem to be a lot of choices. The diecast aluminum boxes with the threaded plugs and an in-use cover show up a lot. But PVC is available, and I have no idea which brand is better than another.

Thanks. I know this is easy, but I try to overplan and avoid the gotchas.
 
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Old 11-04-13, 10:30 AM
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Use a deep bell box. Put an 8'' (or however thick your wall is) nipple into the back of the box through the masonry. On the inside, screw on a bushing before running your 12-2 through.

Red Dot IHD3-1 Dry-Tite Weatherproof Single Gang Universal Device Box w/ Mounting Lugs & Three 1/2 In Outlets - Crescent Electric Supply Company
 
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Old 11-04-13, 03:08 PM
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Or look at the original Bell box, now by Raco. I prefer metallic over non-metallic.

Bell 1-Gang Three 1/2 in. Hole Rectangular Electrical Box - Gray-SB350S at The Home Depot
 
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Old 11-05-13, 12:18 PM
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Thanks guys.

I'll see what my local Ace/HD has in stock and go from there. I have leftover THHN wire from setting up my wood shop years ago, so the Bell box, nipple, interior box looks like an easy and good fit.
 
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Old 11-05-13, 05:20 PM
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The individual conductors will need to be in conduit. They cannot be used without conduit.
 
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Old 11-05-13, 05:59 PM
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Oh I have all three kinds:

separate conductors (three colors), 12 AWG
outdoor rated 12-2
NM 12-2

I keep an old wire cart and box with all my spares. Probably have enough to wire my basement if we ever finish it. Of course, I always seem to need a gauge or specialty wire (like 14-3) that I don't have.
 
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Old 11-05-13, 06:06 PM
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You can splice them in a junction box on the end of the conduit to a cable.
 
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Old 11-05-13, 06:32 PM
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That's kind of what I was thinking and then if I need to extend that circuit to some outlets elsewhere in the basement I'll already have that junction box available. And it will only have two outlets on it, so plenty of room to expand.

That block wall already has the incoming water on it, so any finish work there would have to be framed out away with access panels (if/when we finish it).

Thanks for the input.
 
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Old 11-14-13, 06:38 PM
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Hi all,
Any advice on the emt/conduit nipple? I've had no luck locally. I can put together an adapter, 10' section of PVC and then an L box inside. A little more work chiseling for the screw in bushing for the PVC. Not a big deal, but if I can get the right part online for $10 and only drill one hole, that would be nice.

Then I'll have 9' of PVC to do something with

Thanks,
Anthony
 
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Old 11-14-13, 07:58 PM
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Nearly any size you want can be purchased online or from any supply house.

https://www.platt.com/platt-electric...=128&CatID=487
 
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Old 11-15-13, 05:59 AM
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those were the things I was looking at. HD/Lowes only had 6" long max. Sadly the two electrical supply houses near me closed up / relocated, so online may be my best bet.

Final question: Are those specifically electrical rated or will any galvanized pipe work? I've only been looking in the electrical section, but I know there are some other pipe choices in plumbing (usually for gas fitting).

Thanks.
 
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Old 11-15-13, 06:38 AM
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You must use electrical-rated ones.
 
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Old 11-15-13, 06:48 AM
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Nevermind. Found a supply house near my work. Hadn't heard of them before, but called and they had the conduit.

Just need to get the drill bit and should get this knocked out this weekend.

Thanks again.
 
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Old 11-15-13, 06:52 AM
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Yeah, I found some good info on that just before you posted: apparently the threads are different, wall thickness (and therefore usable space inside) is different. Probably would have worked, but I try to do everything at or above code when possible. Don't want to be one of those horror stories on HGTV

The supply house is a couple miles from work and they were very friendly. Always like it when a pro-place is helpful to us DIYers.
 
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Old 11-15-13, 06:53 AM
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Sadly the two electrical supply houses near me closed up / relocated, so online may be my best bet.
Dulles, Rexel and Dominion are all near you. Home Depot on Costco Plaza Drive is better stocked and staffed than some others. All of these are in Fairfax County. I hit them before or after work on a regular basis.

Oops, missed your last post!
 
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Old 11-15-13, 07:19 AM
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The Dominion that used to be a mile from my house closed a while back. Last time I had checked, the nearest Rexel was a ways away (admittedly, this was several years ago).

I eneded up calling Maurice Electric. Seemed nice, will swing by there on my lunch break.

I knew there were supply shops around, but now with 2 kids and busy work, I pretty much am limited to what's between me and the office most days.

Good intel on the HD near Costco. It's farther away than the others, but I may start checking there first. Thanks.
 
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Old 11-17-13, 07:33 PM
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Installed.

Had one issue of the hole not being square to the house (I was standing in a bush which may have affected it). A little widening on the outside and a lot on the inside and everything fits. Overall, though nothing that a little spray foam or grout can't fill. Went outside box, nipple, L box, and then a standard box to do the tie in work. Caulked and ran the wire, GFCI, cover, etc. Haven't linked it to the inside circuit yet or filled the "wide" part.

Got 300' of UF-B (12-2) I may use. Hate to waste that indoors, but it's free (work surplus, can't believe they were going to throw it out).

Big thanks to all that helped. I'm also the proud owner of a 7/8" x 18" hammer drill bit
 
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