GFCI OUTLET (3 sets of wires)


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Old 11-07-13, 02:20 PM
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GFCI OUTLET (3 sets of wires)

I wish I could draw a diagram to explain this, but I can't so I will just try my best to explain it in words.

I'm replacing all of my outlets in my kitchen and bathrooms with GFCI outlets because our house wasn't built with them.

I've replaced one outlet in this bathroom which was simple. The other outlet has three sets of wires coming into it. Each set is grounded, so I have three black, three white and three bare wires coming into the box. The three ground are already wrapped together so I connected them to the green screw.

(Set 1) is my source wires, as I have checked each set and testing the black to white of each set, and (set 1) is the only set that gives me a light.

Then I have (set 2) and (set 3) coming into the box.

Since (set 1) is my source, I have tested the black wire to the black and white wires of (set 2) and (set 3).

When I test the black wire of (set 1) to (set 2) I get a light with both the black and white wires. When I test it to (set 3) I don't get any lights for either wire.

I'm not sure how to wire this box. (I'm not an electrician, btw). Any suggestions?
 
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Old 11-07-13, 02:22 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

You could take a picture: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...-pictures.html
 
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Old 11-07-13, 03:10 PM
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(Set 1) is my source wires, as I have checked each set and testing the black to white of each set, and (set 1) is the only set that gives me a light.
Then that goes to the line side of the GFCI.

What you are calling a set is a cable. You need to test only between the wires of each cable not to wires of the other cables. It is best to use an analog multimeter but in this case a test light should work. Test between only the black and white of each cable. The cable that reads hot goes to the line side. The other two cables to the load side. If multiple connections for the load wires you can use those or best practice pigtail the wires on the load side.

I'm replacing all of my outlets in my kitchen and bathrooms with GFCI outlets because our house wasn't built with them.
Best practice is only one GFCI receptacle per circuit. That should be the first one of the daisy chain. All downstream non GFCI receptacles on the circuit are fed from the load side of the first GFCI. Lights are generally not fed from a GFCI unless required by the manufacture in situations not likely to apply here.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 11-07-13 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 11-07-13, 03:57 PM
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Then that goes to the line side of the GFCI.

What you are calling a set is a cable. You need to test only between the wires of each cable not to wires of the other cables. It is bestto use an analog multimeter but in this case a test light should work. Test between only the black and white of each cable. The cable that reads hot goes to the line side. The other two cables to the load side. If multiple connections for the load wires you can use those or best practice pigtail the wires on the load side.
Thanks for your reply.

That is what I thought I was supposed to do, but I replaced this outlet once. It worked immediately, but then tripped the GFCI after a day or so and would not reset. I thought it might be a bad outlet so I replaced it with another GFCI outlet and it would not reset either. I am not sure what do do from here.

I do know that the other outlet in this bathroom feeds from this outlet. Once the GFCI was tripped with this outlet, the other outlet would not work. Other than that, I do not know what else feeds from this outlet. I have not been able to find any other outlets/lights that aren't working after this one has tripped.
 
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Old 11-07-13, 04:02 PM
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Best practice is only one GFCI receptacle per circuit. That should be the first one of the daisy chain. All downstream non GFCI receptacles on the circuit are fed from the load side of the first GFCI. Lights are generally not fed from a GFCI unless required by the manufacture in situations not likely to apply here.
This is something I just realized. I replaced all the outlets in my kitchen first, and am working on this bathroom now (the master bath). I replaced one in this bathroom and then this one. I realized after I replaced this one and it tripped that the previous one that I replaced was fed from this outlet. The other feed I am unsure of where it goes as I haven't been able to find anything that doesn't work after it tripped.
 
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Old 11-07-13, 04:06 PM
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It can be difficult to troubleshoot when you have multiple GFCIs on the same circuit. First replace all but the first on the circuit with non GFCI receptacles then go from there.
 
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Old 11-07-13, 04:10 PM
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It can be difficult to troubleshoot when you have multiple GFCIs on the same circuit. First replace all but the first on the circuit with non GFCI receptacles then go from there.
I don't happen to have another non GFCI plug here since I already threw the old one away the other day. That outlet has only one cable coming into it. Is it possible to wire nut the black and white wire together and then troubleshoot the first outlet?
 
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Old 11-07-13, 05:18 PM
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Is it possible to wire nut the black and white wire together and then troubleshoot the first outlet?
No , you should not !
You would be creating a short circuit and trip the breaker in the service panel.
 
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Old 11-08-13, 11:15 AM
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No , you should not !
You would be creating a short circuit and trip the breaker in the service panel.
Should I remove the second outlet in the bathroom. Cap the wires and then try to troubleshoot the first one that has three cables coming into the box?

Since I know which cable is the line, I was wondering if then I should figure out which cable feeds the second box and maybe work from there? I still have no idea what the third cable feeds. I need to test some outlets in other rooms to see which ones do not work with the breaker shut off.

This is the master bathroom. The breaker is labled "outside plugs". The master bedroom outlets still work with the breaker off, so I am wondering if it is feeding another room upstairs, or maybe the outlets outside of the house.

Any recommendations on how to trouble shoot this to see why it might be tripping the GFCI and not resetting?

I was wondering if only attaching the line cable to the outlet and capping off the other wires to see if I could get it to reset would tell me if the problem was on down the line, or if I had a faulty new GFCI plug.
 
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Old 11-08-13, 11:42 AM
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Here's what I have done so far to try to troubleshoot the problem.

I disconnected both of the load cables from the outlet and capped them off. I turned on the power at the breaker. The GFCI outlet had power and I was able to reset it.

I connected one cable to the load side and turned the power back on again. This happened to be the feed to the other outlet. I had power at both outlets and the GFCI didn't trip.

I am still unsure of where the third cable goes, but I have two outlets on the outside of the house that might feed from here. I'm thinking this lead might feed them since the breaker box was labeled (outside plugs). I am going to see if they have power now and go from there.
 
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Old 11-08-13, 11:51 AM
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Neither of the outside receptacles have power with the third cable disconnected and capped off in this outlet, So I think one of them might be the problem.

One of them is newer (it's on the outside of a newer closet addition to the house). The other one only has one plug, and one on/off switch, and it is somewhat corroded. I think it might be the problem.

I'm not sure if these outlets are supposed to be GFCI protected or not. I am wanting some help here to see if they should be, and how to wire this box accordingly. I will also pobably replace the one that I think is bad and see if it is the problem.
 
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Old 11-08-13, 01:30 PM
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If you can't trace the power source you can use a GFCI breaker or use a GFCI at each receptacle but if you do that all connections must be to the line side only. No connections to the load side. In the case of three cables you would connect all wires to pigtails and the pigtails to the line side. Load side would not be used.
 
 

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