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Generator: Possible to change receptacle or hard wire directly in?

Generator: Possible to change receptacle or hard wire directly in?

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  #1  
Old 11-18-13, 09:53 PM
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Generator: Possible to change receptacle or hard wire directly in?

Hello all.

I live in the Philippines. We have 220v / 60hz / 2 wire service / and almost all devices are only 2 prong, because the ground is almost never used in the Philippines. We have outages every now and then and it's costing me money in lost productivity. That being said we purchased the only Japanese built genset we could get our hands on. We actually purchased more Watts than we initially needed because it was the only one available. So we want to make use of this power and power the whole house when the power goes out. I've read a lot about back feeding and we plan to have a double pole double throw manual transfer switch installed to prevent this.

We purchased an ELEMAX SH6500EX Type S - Powered By Honda. It's 5.6kva rated and 6.5 max. However my biggest issue right now is that the generator currently only has 2 x 16a receptacles. Which I believe means we can only use up a max of 3520W from each receptacle. Because we are looking to feed the whole house this is not ideal and a waste of about 2000W that we can't use but paid for. We have no real options to exchange it for either. So my question is, can we do one of the following:

1. Replace the 2 x 16A with 1 x 30A twist lock.

or

2. Wire a 30A twist lock with out disconnecting the existing 16A. (could preserve the warranty perhaps)

or

3. Just wire directly in to the leads and skip having a receptacle at all being this is a permanent install.

Looking at the schematic it does appear that it's only one circuit and its protected by only one breaker so I think it's capable of delivering the full 6.5 kva and I'm just limited by the receptacles. I've attached the schematics for your review. I'm pretty sure we could just throw a twist lock on there but I'm not sure of the proper connections especially the ground. We will actually find an "electrician" to do the work but I want to know what is truly possible first, because here people will say anything and often they don't know what they are talking about in regards to stuff like this.

So what is the best way to accomplish this? I know all about back feeding and this will not be an issue with DPDT switch and here in PH we kind of just need to do what we need to do. We don't have the luxury of fully stocked Home Depot's, we take what we can get.

My bottom line goal is I want to make the full power of the generator available to my main breakers in the best way possible. We are not interested in a switch that only switches some circuits, we really need to do the main, the house is small.

EDIT: I guess my main question at this point, how would I wire a L6-30R to the generator replacing the two 16A R's and how would that wire to the DPDT switch in the attachment (not my pic).

Thanks!
 
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Last edited by diyPHIL; 11-19-13 at 12:50 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-19-13, 05:34 AM
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Are you sure the generator can put out 9000 watts for more than a few seconds?

Maybe 3520 watts on each of the two receptacles (7000 watts total) is all it can really deliver on a continuous basis. If a motor starting up drew a little more, like 1000 watts, that won't hurt.

Alternatively, check the instructions for a removable lid somewhere that exposes lugs to which you can connect up a higher load .

At the risk of voiding the warranty I would remove the two existing receptacles and install a single receptacle of higher amperage rating.
 

Last edited by AllanJ; 11-19-13 at 06:05 AM.
  #3  
Old 11-19-13, 06:34 AM
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The two recepticals are 220v allan... Not sure how this would be wired internally. Its a 6500w gen...

Would it have 4 windings???

Are the panels in the phillipines 220v on each leg???
 
  #4  
Old 11-19-13, 08:36 AM
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I double checked the schematic. The two existing receptacles are connected in parallel from the same 240 volt output of the generator. Each receptacle has two hots and earth (ground).

On the generator, connect up a 240 volt only 30 amp receptacle where the two existing 16 amp receptacles are located, using the same two hots and earth wires. Don't use a 4 hole 120/240 volt receptacle.

Connect the two lower terminals of the DPDT knife switch as shown to the hot terminals of a 30 amp male receptacle (inlet receptacle), Use an extension cord to connect the male receptacle on the wall to the generator (female) receptacle.
 
  #5  
Old 11-19-13, 12:56 PM
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Yes, that is what I was thinking. So can you be more clear for me.. I should use a male L6-30R on the GENSET side right? Also I believe its delivering 230W on one lead and 0 on the other, at least that's how the power company delivers it. How do I know which lead goes to which terminal? and which side does it go on the DPDT? Does it matter? And finally, how would I hook up the ground wire on the MAIN/HOUSE side? No place to put that on the DPDT since we only have 2-wire service.

Thanks guys.
 
  #6  
Old 11-19-13, 04:55 PM
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It does not matter which side (left or right) of the DPDT switch as shown each hot wire from the generator goes to.

Ground (earthing) wires are never connected to switch terminals. Instead the ground wires from each cable coming into a junction box or outlet box are connected to each other (and also to the box itself if the latter is metal).

At least in the US, a ground wire is also attached to the switch framework or mounting strap or yoke. Use extra lshort engths of wire (pigtails) if you don't have enough wire ends to attach to the various places needed. Since the DPDT switch shown does not have a metal framework, a ground wire is not attached to it. Any one screw terminal is not meant to hold more than one wire unless the terminal is shaped in a fashion or has a special washer so that two wires with straight ends will fit one on each side of the screw without slipping off sideways when the screw is almost but not quite tight yet.

Because the ground wire is not attached to either hot wire (or is it?) you can't say for sure that one hot lead delivers 230 volts and the other delivers 0 volts compared with saying one hot lead delivers 115 volts and the other delivers minus 115 volts. Actually you don't care.
 

Last edited by AllanJ; 11-19-13 at 05:11 PM.
  #7  
Old 11-20-13, 05:02 AM
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I'm still confused on what to do with the ground. And now I'm not even sure if the genset is providing 230 and 0 , but I guess that doesn't really matter?

I've attached some more pictures here. Take a look at my main breaker box. I'm not sure what's going on in there. Where would I connect what?

If I got a meter, what would I set it to, to check for the power output of the genset and utility?

Also more info on the power in PH if you have time: Philippine Electrical Wiring – Building our Philippine House |

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  #8  
Old 11-20-13, 05:11 AM
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Do you only have 1 hot coming in and one neutral? If so then its a 230v panel....

Or are there 3 wires coming in? 2 hots and a neutral?

Let us know..
 
  #9  
Old 11-20-13, 05:23 AM
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When I look at the power lines coming in to my house from the pole there are only two wires, so I'm assuming the panel is 230v. I see two big wires at the top of the panel in the pics I posted.
 
  #10  
Old 11-20-13, 06:36 AM
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Set your meter to AC volts, 220 volts or greater.

You should read about 230 volts hot to hot for either the utility power or the generator power.

Touch the meter probes to any pair of screws (top pair or bottom pair) on any of the breaker units (blocks).
 
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