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Replaced Main Panel and wires entering new panel are a little short

Replaced Main Panel and wires entering new panel are a little short

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  #1  
Old 12-12-13, 05:48 PM
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Replaced Main Panel and wires entering new panel are a little short

Guys-

I had an Electrician replace my Main Panel and the new panel was a few inches shorter than the old one. All the wires were long enough to connect to the branch circuit breakers. The issue was the sheathing on some of the wires were an inch or two short for entering the knock outs in the top of the panel. He put electricial tape around the individual conductors and pulled the wires through the knock outs. I have permit and will be scheduling that soon. However, I wanted to ask if this is safe?

Thanks
 
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  #2  
Old 12-12-13, 06:17 PM
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The electric code requires at least a 1/4 inch of the sheath inside the box. I would not accept his "fix". A trough could have been mounted above or below the panel to fix this.

Probably not unsafe, but not correct either.
 
  #3  
Old 12-12-13, 06:24 PM
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He put electricial tape around the individual conductors and pulled the wires through the knock outs. I have permit and will be scheduling that soon. However, I wanted to ask if this is safe?
It's a code violation and shouldn't pass inspection. I hope the permit is in the contractor's name so he'll have to come back to complete the job properly or risk his license, but you are saying YOU have the permit. That makes no sense at all, why would you have the permit? The contractor should be doing the coordinating of the inspection, that's his job as a contractor.
 
  #4  
Old 12-12-13, 06:42 PM
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I guess the Electrical Inspector will make the call. If it's wrong, he can come back and fix it correctly.
 
  #5  
Old 12-12-13, 06:54 PM
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If the inspector accepts this crap they must not know the code. It is wrong and should be fixed.
 
  #6  
Old 12-12-13, 07:07 PM
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If the inspector accepts this crap they must not know the code. It is wrong and should be fixed.
I couldn't agree more.
 
  #7  
Old 12-12-13, 07:12 PM
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Thanks for the input. I'll set the inspection up and if it's wrong get it corrected.
 
  #8  
Old 12-13-13, 04:28 AM
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Guys-

This whole situation is starting to annoy me. I hired an Electrician to have this job done correctly and now I'm on forums trying to understand the proper thing to do and don't necessarily trust the inspectors either. Again, the issue is the sheathing is too short to enter the main panel and leave the 1/4 inch required in the box per code. I'd like to know what options are code compliant to rectify this sheathing issue for the panel because I don't like the idea of wire nutting every wire coming into my panel. Are there any other options? I'd like to understand everything possible before the Inspector fails it and tells me what needs done.
 
  #9  
Old 12-13-13, 05:36 AM
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Bring all the cables into a trough mounted above or below the panel.
 
  #10  
Old 12-13-13, 05:59 AM
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I appreciate your trouch option. Is that the only option to satisfy code? Below are some of my ideas because I don't like the idea of wire nutting the wires in a trough. Example

1. Assume the meter could be moved and the box moved up to provide the extra 1 - 2 inches for the sheathing.
 
  #11  
Old 12-13-13, 06:28 AM
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I'd like to understand everything possible before the Inspector fails it and tells me what needs done.
You hired a contractor, the inspector should be telling the contractor why he won't pass the work and what he wants done.


you are saying YOU have the permit. That makes no sense at all, why would you have the permit? The contractor should be doing the coordinating of the inspection, that's his job as a contractor.
You have little leverage with the contractor to do his work properly except for payment. The whole idea of a permit is for the contractor to do his work properly in order the get the inspection completed successfully. Why doesn't the contractor hold the permit for this job?
 
  #12  
Old 12-13-13, 07:23 AM
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The wires do not need to splice in the trough. The trough would just be used so the sheath reaches into the box.
 
  #13  
Old 12-13-13, 07:31 AM
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The wires do not need to splice in the trough. The trough would just be used so the sheath reaches into the box.

Read more: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...#ixzz2nMws9Eou
I thought the sheathing had to enter the main panel 1/4 of an inch? I don't see how this will resolve the code issue without splicing the wire. I thought you were implying to put a trough in and then use a longer wire to enter the panel so the sheathing goes thru and this will have wire nuts.
 
  #14  
Old 12-13-13, 08:08 AM
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The trough would mount directly to the panel. The sheath only needs to reach into a box. It does not need to be the panel. The trough is the box.
 
  #15  
Old 12-13-13, 08:22 AM
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Thanks PCBOSS! This makes me feel much better. I was under the impression the wires had to enter the main with the sheathing exposed. If what you state meets code, then I agree this is the easiest fix.
 
  #16  
Old 12-13-13, 08:42 AM
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I see no reason it would not meet code. It is commonly done.
 
  #17  
Old 12-13-13, 05:12 PM
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pcboss

I'm trying to picture this trough installation. I see the trough mounted directly on top of the panel which is rececessed in the wall but the area above panel is exposed. The wires will enter the top of trough and knockouts will have to line up on the electric panel with the trough. Isnt' a cable clamp still required on the top panel knockout when using the trough? If so I still have the same issue except the wire has sheathing in the trough. I'm not getting this.

I've setup my inspection and will see what inspector says but I don't see how this can be done without splicing each conductor. I guess that's why I'm not an Electrician and hired the work to be done :-) Appreciate you helping me try to understand this.

It appears with this solution it might be an acceptable work around for the sheathing requirement of 1/4 inch if trough is considered part of main panel? I'm more concerned about the safety issue. If the Inspector passed it as is, is there any safety issue?
 
  #18  
Old 12-13-13, 05:33 PM
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The knockout could be punched to line up with the ko's in the panel. Think of the trough as an extension of the panel box.
 
  #19  
Old 12-13-13, 05:50 PM
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Ok, I get your point but I still will need a cable clamp on top of the trough and on the bottom going into the panel, correct? If so, the wires going through the bottom of trough or top of panel will be individual conductors, is this ok per code?
 
  #20  
Old 12-13-13, 07:14 PM
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The cable will need a connector or clamp where it enters the trough. The conductors can pass unspliced as open conductors from the trough into the panel. The trough will be like a Velveeta box either above or below the panel. The close nipple between the panel and trough is all you need to pass the wires into the panel.
 
  #21  
Old 12-13-13, 08:34 PM
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jboss-

This sounds like a lot of re-work for my Electrician. Based on what you have told me, I see the steps below for fixing the short sheathing on the panel. Truly appreciate the help and quick responses. Do the steps below look correct and I honestly do have an Electrician. I'm assuming the Inspector will catch this and fail the inspection. I can review this plan with him and then call up my Electrician and tell him what needs done so it is correct for code. I do not want anymore hassles to deal with. Truly appreciate your prompt responses/help and I will put this to rest after you confirm my detailed steps are correct.

1. Disconnect ALL wires and cable clamps from Main panel.
2. Place trough on top of Main panel and trace all knock outs on bottom of trough.
3. Duplicate the knockouts on top of trough.
4. Drill out traced knockouts on bottom and top of trough. (Assuming it's ok to drill these knockouts?)
5. Mount the trough above panel and run nipple from bottom of trough to top of Main panel for each drilled knock out.
6. Run each cable back through top of trough with a cable clamp.
7. Strip wires in trough to a minimum 1/4 inch sheathing in trough.
8. Run un-sheathed conductors into Main panel trough thru nipple and re-wire each branch circuit.

Costly mistake for the Electrician.
 
  #22  
Old 12-14-13, 04:05 PM
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That pretty much sums up the process, except a large KO could be punched in the trough panel interface and bring multiple cables through one opening.
 
  #23  
Old 12-15-13, 12:30 PM
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Thanks...Not sure if one large knockout could be used without splicing but I get the idea.
 
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