old wiring, new gfi will not work

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  #1  
Old 12-23-13, 08:25 AM
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old wiring, new gfi will not work

I've been converting all of the Kitchen & bath receptacles to gfi. All but one worked. When I looked a little deeper the one that did not work was on the house original wiring. The house is 60 yrs old and had updated wiring system installed in the 80s. The GFI in question reads continuity between ground and the neutral wire. I've been told in older homes like this one that the grd & neutral wire are connected to the same bus bar in the original panel. Short of re wiring the circuit is there a solution?

Best,
Bligh
 
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Old 12-23-13, 08:32 AM
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100% sure you have the line and loads right? Line is incoming power.
You did turn the power back on before trying to reset it, right?
 
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Old 12-23-13, 09:18 AM
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Grounds and neutrals are connected at the panel even in today's market, so nothing awry there. Make sure you aren't feeding a GfCI off another GfCI, as you will have nuisance trips. When testing with your multimeter, do you have 120 volts between your hot lead and neutral? Are you connecting the hot and neutral from the same cable to the LINE terminals on the GfcI?
 
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Old 12-23-13, 10:08 AM
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Properly connected, a GFCI receptacle will work as expected on knob and tube wiring. Wiring from the 1960s should be no problem, and running new wiring will probably not correct the problem. Double-check the function of each wire and the way you terminated them, as already suggested.

I've been converting all of the Kitchen & bath receptacles to gfi.
Best practice is one GFCI protection device per circuit.
Originally Posted by Chandler
Make sure you aren't feeding a GfCI off [the LOAD terminals on] another GfCI, as you will have nuisance trips.
 
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Old 12-23-13, 10:25 AM
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Wow....thanks so much for everyone's rapid response, I did not expect that on a Monday morning.

I checked the Line in voltage @ 110 volts....there is a load line out that runs up to the second floor and I have not checked where that goes. There are no other GFI's in this circuit. I checked over and over again to make sure the device was connected properly and it is. Moreever when I connect a normal outlet(new) and not GFI it works fine.

This is the only gfi in the Kitchen on the old wiring and all (3) of the others work as they should.

Best,
Bligh
 
  #6  
Old 12-23-13, 11:03 AM
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Anyone think it could be a shared neutral?
The kitchen should really be on it's own circuit. In fact at least two are required for a kitchen.
 
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Old 12-23-13, 11:19 AM
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there is a load line out that runs up to the second floor and I have not checked where that goes.
That's what you need to check.

If you only connect the line to the GFI receptacle it probably works fine. You aren't required to connect the other wiring in the box to the load side of the GFI unless you want that also protected.

You can pigtail the incoming line wiring with the outgoing load wiring and connect the tails to the line in on the GFI. This way.... nothing downstream can trip that GFI receptacle.
 
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Old 12-23-13, 11:22 AM
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GFI on old wiring

I checked the Line in voltage @ 110 volts....there is a load line out that runs up to the second floor and I have not checked where that goes.


If you connected that load line to the GFCI receptacle you may have a problem in that circuit that is causing the trip. Only connect the incoming line and see if it holds.
 
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Old 12-23-13, 11:35 AM
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I checked the Line in voltage @ 110 volts...
You should have +120V hot-to-neutral on your system. What are you using to test for voltage?

there is a load line out that runs up to the second floor and I have not checked where that goes.
Disconnect that and see if the GFCI holds.

Originally Posted by PJmax
You can pigtail the incoming line wiring with the outgoing load wiring and connect the tails to the line in on the GFI. This way.... nothing downstream can trip that GFI receptacle.
That's one way to do it. However, on most GFCI receptacles each terminal has a clamp plate with slots for two wires. So you can just terminate the second pair of wires there, next to the incoming pair.

Reversed polarity on the load pair might cause the GFCI to trip when a load is connected to that pair.

This is the only gfi in the Kitchen on the old wiring and all (3) of the others work as they should.
Is this one of four GFCI receptacles you've installed in the kitchen or one of four in your house?

How many circuits do you have for countertop receptacles? What is the size of each of those circuits?
 
  #10  
Old 12-23-13, 12:37 PM
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Gentleman:

Thank You all so much....the suggestion that I pig tail off the Line voltage thus avoiding the GFI to load the down line circuits was a very good idea and worked just fine.

Best,
Bligh

PS: The measured voltage (now with a better meter showed 120V AC).
The Kitchen has now 4 GFI"s....20amp
The Bath has one GFI...15 amp
The upstairs bath has no outlets....I think code suggest it has one GFI that I will get to when I'm done in the Kitchen
 
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Old 12-23-13, 01:04 PM
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The measured voltage (now with a better meter showed 120V AC).
That sounds more like it.

The Kitchen has now 4 GFI"s....20amp
How many circuits are those on? How many 20A countertop circuits do you have?

The Bath has one GFI...15 amp
The device can be 15A. The circuit should be 20A.

The upstairs bath has no outlets....I think code suggest it has one GFI that I will get to when I'm done in the Kitchen
Same requirement.
 
  #12  
Old 12-23-13, 02:07 PM
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I have 3 20amp circuits -counter top-
one wall 20amp circuit---------------All of these are now GFI

The bath is on a 20 amp circuit ... driving 1 light and one GFI

I used the GFI (the one that would not work) to connect the load line instead of pig tails.

All of these tested OK with a plug in GFI test device.

Best,
Bligh
 
  #13  
Old 12-23-13, 06:08 PM
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One wall 20amp circuit---------------All of these are now GFI
Are you saying that that you installed a GFCI receptacle in each outlet on that circuit? If so, why?

The bath is on a 20 amp circuit ... driving 1 light and one GFI
Supplying, not driving, but that's fine.

I used the GFI (the one that would not work) to connect the load line instead of pig tails.
Yes, but how did you connect the load wiring to it?
 
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