New build is offically a go!

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  #41  
Old 02-03-14, 10:05 AM
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I had plastic, plastic, plastic on my mind. I'll run Metal from the meter socket to the conduit body, then pvc out the bottom. is that allowed?
 
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  #42  
Old 02-03-14, 10:24 AM
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You might have a problem finding a 2 1/2" PVC LL, but you could always use a 3" PVC LL with 3 X 2 1/2 reducing bushings.

https://shop.rexelusa.com/bizline-30...rmation.action

OR......go to any supply house that sells Carlon products and have them order one.
 
  #43  
Old 02-03-14, 05:58 PM
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Only thing you will find at the Big Box is LB's. That would not work? I think Menard's has 2.5" stuff but not LL's.

I know for sure that Viking will have both metal and PVC available as that is where we get our material. Either the St. Paul store or the Minneapolis location will likely be convenient for you. They will do cash/credit card sales. The Minneapolis one is their Distribution Center
 
  #44  
Old 02-03-14, 06:20 PM
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I'll run Metal from the meter socket to the conduit body, then pvc out the bottom. is that allowed?
Sure. Just install a 2-1/2" PVC male adapter in the opening you want to run the plastic from.

Any plastic used in this location should be Sch 80, not Sch 40.
 
  #45  
Old 02-03-14, 06:34 PM
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I just left the build site, man its cold when the sun goes down!

The foundation guy was very apologetic and will excavate where the sleeve was supposed to be and core a new hole. I'll then go back with my grinder and make the vertical "relief" to allow the elbow to sit closer to the wall.

All in all its the best possible solution, there wont be any ugly conduit outside that doesn't need to be there, and I don't have to go buying anything additional.

I know for sure that Viking will have both metal and PVC available as that is where we get our material. Either the St. Paul store or the Minneapolis location will likely be convenient for you. They will do cash/credit card sales. The Minneapolis one is their Distribution Center
I called Viking and they didnt have one in stock (pvc)! :eek
 
  #46  
Old 02-03-14, 06:39 PM
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Wow! The surprises me! Although, I have only used one LL in my entire life and that was metal. Most cases an LB will work just fine.

Good thing you don't need it though.

I did look at my app and they do have 2"
 
  #47  
Old 02-03-14, 09:00 PM
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I called Viking and they didnt have one in stock (pvc)! :eek
Most pros only use metal. That said, did you call the distribution center? Did you ask them how soon they could have one on the counter for you?

And just out of curiosity, why are you set on doing this with PVC? It's arguably not the best material to use for this.
 
  #48  
Old 02-04-14, 05:52 AM
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Not going to have to use an conduit body after all. Foundation guys are coming out to install a new sleeve. :-) I work with PVC all every day and it was just my go to...
 
  #49  
Old 02-04-14, 09:13 AM
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Understood. Thanks for clarifying.

If you're going to use PVC, it should be Sch 80.
 
  #50  
Old 02-04-14, 04:15 PM
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Most pros only use metal.
Not true. We always use plastic between the meter and main panel in Resi. Otherwise you have to bond the pipe to the enclosures with grounding bushings. Plus the cost of metal compared to PVC is quite a bit when you start adding up weather-tight fittings.

I do agree that exposed PVC should be Sch 80.
 
  #51  
Old 02-04-14, 05:53 PM
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We always use plastic between the meter and main panel in Resi.
Interesting. Just not done here. Different customs in different areas.
Otherwise you have to bond the pipe to the enclosures with grounding bushings.
Really? We pull ground and bond it through plastic and flex (and I do it with EMT too, usually). Threaded RMC gets connected with a pair of lock nuts - WP on a service (yes, the weathertight fittings) - and a plastic bushing, and used as the grounding conductor.

But hey, whatever floats the inspector's boat!

Scubawes, since you're working in the same area where Tolyn works, I'd take his advice right down the line.
 
  #52  
Old 02-04-14, 07:55 PM
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Otherwise you have to bond the pipe to the enclosures with grounding bushings.
Really? We pull ground and bond it through plastic and flex (and I do it with EMT too, usually). Threaded RMC gets connected with a pair of lock nuts - WP on a service (yes, the weathertight fittings) - and a plastic bushing, and used as the grounding conductor.
Yep, the same here. If you use metallic conduit on a service, EMT or rigid, with concentric K.O.s, you have to use bonding bushins both inside the meter socket and inside the panelboard. With eccentric K.O.s, only grounding locknuts with plastic bushings are required, the ones with the little screw that digs into the metal. But, that's mostly on commercial/industrial services. Service cable is what you see mostly here on residential services (except mine, I hate service cable).
 
  #53  
Old 02-04-14, 11:35 PM
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Yep, the same here. If you use metallic conduit on a service, EMT or rigid, with concentric K.O.s, you have to use bonding bushins both inside the meter socket and inside the panelboard.
Oh yeah. That rule. Y'know what, when you don't buy or install cans that have K.O.s in them you tend to forget about that one. Until it pops up again.

With eccentric K.O.s, only grounding locknuts with plastic bushings are required, the ones with the little screw that digs into the metal.
Those are just funky IMO. If you haven't tapped a regular locknut tight enough to bite through the paint then you need to tap it again. Then I'll install the bonding bushing if there are any unused K.O.s - eccentric or not.

Service cable is what you see mostly here on residential services (except mine, I hate service cable).
I totally agree. I don't actually know, but the riser/weatherhead we installed on our old house may have been the only one in the neighborhood. It was certainly one of the few. So be it. I won't have that junk on my house if I can help it.

This house has an UG feed. Love it.
 
  #54  
Old 02-05-14, 08:20 AM
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I totally agree. I don't actually know, but the riser/weatherhead we installed on our old house may have been the only one in the neighborhood. It was certainly one of the few. So be it. I won't have that junk on my house if I can help it.
My personal dislike for service cable has a basis from the old 300 volt rated cable from 30 to 35 years ago, today service cable is 600 volt rated. The older 300 volt rated cable (aluminum or copper) would show a slight continuity between insulated conductors when checked with a meter that I always figured was because of leakage through the insulation. Also, service cable just looks bad in my opinion.
 
  #55  
Old 02-09-14, 08:56 AM
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Well, POCO showed up a week early! Good thing I drove by the site and saw the trucks just sitting there... They trenched in the gas and electric (pictures and a video to be posted later tonight) I was going through my checklist before I start hanging boxes, mounting the Load Centers and burying the service lateral conduit and need one thing clarified. According to this table where do I fall?
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Column 3? and since it is going under a 3" concrete slab under the building does this fall under the 0" category? The 12" category?

I lost the opportunity to have a trencher brought into the space as the interior walls are framed, and will be digging by hand, (frozen ground ) and would like to make the trench as deep as necessary, but would also like to save my back as much as possible!
 
  #56  
Old 02-09-14, 11:50 AM
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Column 3? and since it is going under a 3" concrete slab under the building does this fall under the 0" category? The 12" category?
Since you'll be under a 3" slab, I don't think you have a problem at all. Many times in commercial buildings the conduits go right in the pour and it is very common for them to be under the slab in the gravel with slab on grade construction.
 
  #57  
Old 02-09-14, 11:52 AM
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You are under a building so 0" is what you need to do. This is to the top of the pipe so a shallow trench will be fine. I would put the pipe deep enough so as not to cause any problems with the plumbers/concrete floor guys. You might want to mark where the pipe is on the ground (IF you can't see the top) so that nobody trys to pound a stake through it. I have seen that before. Luckily not me but the plumbers pipe was hit.
 
  #58  
Old 02-09-14, 11:59 AM
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Make sure the conduit is below the slab so no weak points are created.
 
  #59  
Old 02-09-14, 12:32 PM
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Thanks guys, now I regret putting the new sleeve 22" below the floor level... I guess I can trench a nice gradual slope for the conduit to climb over the 20 some feet it has to travel.

Wes
 
  #60  
Old 02-16-14, 10:38 AM
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Pulling the service today. Conduit was glued and panels.were mounted yesterday! Now for one last question before I start tugging. I have me 2 hots and my neutral ready to pull from the meter, through the conduit under the slab. Do I need the #6 ground to go from the socket to the main panel? I originally was told under the slab in conduit is considered outside the building and I would only have to pull 3 wires H-H-N. No ground.

From the main panel to the sub panel in the garage I have all 4 ready to go.
 
  #61  
Old 02-16-14, 10:59 AM
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You do not need a ground between the meter and main panel even though you are using PVC. The meter can is bonded to the neutral (grounded conductor) as allowed.

You do need a ground between the main and sub panel (4 wires) as you mentioned.
 
  #62  
Old 02-16-14, 11:03 AM
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Thanks! Wish me luck pulling this beast!
 
  #63  
Old 02-16-14, 12:18 PM
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I can almost smell those brats on the grill already!
 
  #64  
Old 02-18-14, 05:33 AM
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Been making some very good progress. All the boxes are hung, all the second story cans are hung, service is pulled, panels are hung and setup. Now to fight with the HVAC guy about putting cold air returns in the ceiling where my cans have to be on the main level... I'll start throwing photos up here electrical photos - Imgur.

Now to try to get the inspector out to sign off on the panels and the trench so we can get some power to the temp furnace!
 
  #65  
Old 02-18-14, 08:00 AM
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I believe I'd add some conduit straps under the meter socket before the inspector comes out. The only other thing I think I would have done differently is the mounting of the main service panel. I believe I would have inverted it and bottom fed it.
 
  #66  
Old 02-18-14, 08:38 AM
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Will add straps today. Thanks for the suggestion. I would have loved to flip that panel! I was unaware it was allowed... I do not like how the 1 1/2" conduit to the garage comes off the left side and crosses over. At this point, I'll live with it I guess.
 
  #67  
Old 02-18-14, 08:52 AM
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Most single phase loadcenters are allowed to be inverted, but most 3 phase loadcenters are not. At this point I wouldn't try to change it either.
 
  #68  
Old 02-18-14, 12:38 PM
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Can someone give me a quick run through on grounding and bonding everything?
I have a 10' copper ground rod driven into the ground below my meter socket, a stub of rebar coming through the foundation near the main panel, (this is the ufer correct?) and the ground traveling from the main panel to my sub panel. The bonding screw has been removed from the sub panel. My current house has a #6 bare going from the ground rod,into the meter socket, then going from the meter socket to the main panel, it also goes from the main panel to under the concrete floor, then there is #6 thhn going from my main panel through the house to the water pipe.should I basically copy thus setup?
 
  #69  
Old 02-18-14, 05:38 PM
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The GEC to the water service entry should be a #4 copper or #2 aluminum for a 200 amp service, #6 copper is fine for the ground rod and ufer. I prefer bare 7 strand copper wire. Generally the ground wires connect at the first disconnect, your service panel in your case. Some power companies, however, want the ground wire (GEC) from the ground rod to terminate in the meter socket. I'd suggest checking the power companies service manual on that.
 
  #70  
Old 02-18-14, 06:28 PM
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Minnesota you do not connect the ground rod to the meter socket. Just connect all the GEC's to your main panel.

Most cases we do not like to rough in the electric until all the other trades are done with theirs. Electrical cable is much more flexible then a 4" pipe or 12x12 duct.
 
  #71  
Old 02-18-14, 07:26 PM
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The other trades have a way to get around any wiring in the way. Snip, snip.
 
  #72  
Old 02-18-14, 08:33 PM
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Thanks Tolyn,

I've been working with the plumber and hvac guys to make sure everyone has the space they need. I haven't pulled any wire yet, just want to make sure there isn't a duct or pipe where a recessed can has to go, or make sure there isn't a can where a pipe or duct has to go. I joists make the project a little harder to coordinate than open trusses. We're all on the same page, and they have been very open to asking my opinion before running. I have actually made some suggestions that will save us all time and money in the long run. They keep asking me if I am actually the homeowner and not a tradesman. :-)
 
  #73  
Old 02-19-14, 01:26 PM
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They keep asking me if I am actually the homeowner and not a tradesman.
Uh-oh! They smell the brats too!
 
  #74  
Old 02-19-14, 07:56 PM
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I have invited them too!

So it looks like they may be running a plastic water line. Should I run another ground rod in the basement?

Can I run my #6 bare wire from the the outdoor ground rod to the main panel in the trench I have my service entrance lateral in? Or should it be ran through the floor joists/wall studs?

And lastly, should I run all the grounds into the main panel, wire nut them and then terminate on the ground buss bar or terminate them all individually?

Thanks again guys,

Wes
 
  #75  
Old 02-19-14, 08:10 PM
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The grounds will all terminate in your service panel neutral bar. They will not get wire nuts.
 
  #76  
Old 02-19-14, 08:15 PM
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Perfect, thanks!

Can it lay in the trench?
 
  #77  
Old 02-19-14, 08:49 PM
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The shortest and straightest path is the best.
 
  #78  
Old 02-21-14, 07:35 AM
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Grounds are all connected! I started popping holes in anticipation of pulling wire today. Here are some photos of the days progress.
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
 
  #79  
Old 02-25-14, 11:36 AM
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Just about ready to schedule my rough in. What state should I have everything in before I do so? All feeds in the panel landed and looking nice? All receptacles pigtailed/dressed ready for a device? Same with the light fixtures?
 
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Old 02-25-14, 11:51 AM
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Many want all the grounds made up and showing a tail for the device.

I would not add the devices until the drywall was up, finished and painted.
 
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