Supported box for fan

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Old 01-02-14, 03:14 PM
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Supported box for fan

Im trying to figure out if the ceiling box that a fan is installed on is properly supported.

It looks like a standard octagon ceiling box but there is some kind of nipple in the center. Im guessing this is the support? I cant gain access to the outside of the box to see what it might be connected too.

What type of box do I likely have here?
 
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Old 01-02-14, 03:57 PM
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Fan Box

Maybe one like this. Kind of depends on the age of the installation. There are some old boxes with fixture studs. There are several different styles of fan boxes depending on how they are mounted to the structure. Some mount onto the ceiling joist, some use a bar-hanger so box is supported between the joists. A picture may help someone identify your ceiling box more clearly.

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Old 01-02-14, 04:10 PM
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Unfortuently I don't have a camera.

The ceiling box is probably almost 60 years old. If that may help. I assume its not something like the deep box with hanger in your photo.

Thanks for posting though.
 
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Old 01-02-14, 04:13 PM
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Easy to tell if your box is rated for a ceiling fan is by the screws. Standard box will use 8-32 screws. A fan box will use 10-32 screws.

From what you describe is sounds like your is an older style box with a fixture nipple. Especially if it is 60 years old.
 
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Old 01-02-14, 05:26 PM
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If it has a fixture nipple its likely supported?

Unforetuently everything is covered with blown in insulation on top so I cant really see how or if its supported for a fan.

When you mention the screw size that's the size of holes in the box to attach a device/cover too right? In my case it looks like its been tapped larger or at least larger type screws were used in a pinch.
 
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Old 01-02-14, 06:12 PM
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When you mention the screw size that's the size of holes in the box to attach a device/cover too right?
Correct. You can try a 8-32 screw and a 10-32 screw and see which threads. Since it is 60 years old I would suspect they are 8-32 unless they have been made bigger as you mentioned. It really is not that hard to install a box/bracket like Bahtah posted in place of an existing box.
 
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Old 01-02-14, 06:32 PM
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The ceiling box is probably almost 60 years old.
It definitely is not ceiling fan rated if it's that old. I am not sure when ceiling fan boxes were first produced or required by the NEC, but they weren't around yet in the '70s or early '80s.
 
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Old 01-02-14, 06:33 PM
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Wouldn't that be 10-24?
The real test is this: a fan-rated box should accept 10-24 screws for fixture support; a standard box, not manufactured to support a fan or chandelier, will only accept 8-32 screws.

Read more: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/li...#ixzz2pIJc1QuF
.
 
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Old 01-02-14, 06:51 PM
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I have always found them to be 10-32, same as ground screws.
 
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Old 01-02-14, 09:33 PM
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I agree with CJ, a box that old is not fan rated. That box is mounted on a spreader bar and the but is just through a center knockout.
 
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Old 01-03-14, 12:17 PM
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I got up in the attic and couldn't get as close as I would have liked but there is large 1x material that is above the box that runs perpendicular to the joists. I thought it might just be a plank to walk on but its firmly attached to the joists and I couldn't tell for certain but the conduit or box (hopefully) is attached to it.

I noticed the same configuration above a box that has another fan. Im hoping this is secure.

Do you think I should make an issue of this? All this was here before me.... The fan in place is newish and has been mounted for at least 3 years and I am assuming there was another fan there for many years before that.....

What type of support have you seen for old boxes on the job?
 
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Old 01-03-14, 12:21 PM
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The bracket shown in post 2 works well for an old work install. There are also some boxes that screw to the joist with lag screws.
 
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Old 01-03-14, 12:55 PM
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How many pounds is the requirement if you need a supported box or not?

Should I be investigating this further?
 
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Old 01-03-14, 01:20 PM
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Either the box needs to be fan rated or the box cannot solely support the fan. Weight does not matter.
 
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Old 01-03-14, 01:30 PM
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What type of support have you seen for old boxes on the job?
Honestly, I have seen everything from solid wood framing, to almost nothing but a plastic nail on box. I have never seen, or heard of a fan falling because the box has given way. However, I would never install one without a proper box just because there is a chance.

If there is a 1x above the existing box I would remove the existing box, add any wood needed to bring it down to the proper level, and then install a box that is rated for a fan. There is many types out there, I have found that a Menard's (since I see you are in IN) has a few more options then the other big boxes but if they don't have what you want, try the other guys.
 

Last edited by pcboss; 01-03-14 at 01:33 PM. Reason: without, not with
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