Enclosing multiple Romex circuits

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  #1  
Old 01-15-14, 09:58 PM
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Enclosing multiple Romex circuits

I'm running at least (1) 110V 20A circuit and (1) 220V 20A circuit from the sub-panel to the back of the garage to get a small wood/work shop in use by the spring. When the circuits leave the panel (no matter which direction they head) they must run vertically 2-4 ft, depending on where they exit the panel, to a total height of 10'. To get to the back of the garage from where the panel sits, the cable then has to 90 left, run 10" then turn 90 left and run about 30' until I can terminate the runs to a J-box and go from there. The walls are all cinder block, the roof joist is covered with sheets of reflective foam insulation and is screwed to the joist along with two rows of twin bulb 8' fluorescent lights on each side of the garage. The top of the walls are capped with 2x's and the edges are exposed for nailing to - 10' up. So....I'd like to run some sort of piping(?) so I only have to climb up there once, and want room for expansion. I don't want to keep trying to stack and nail multiple 12-2 Romex runs on the edge of the 2x. I know not put sheathed cable in conduit and I'm opposed to PVC. I'd like to save getting the cable from one end of the garage to the other in the rafters behind the insulation as a last resort option. I'm pretty convinced it would be a real pita. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
-Chris
 
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  #2  
Old 01-15-14, 10:18 PM
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Well if you don't care about it being ugly you can use cable stackers..



.. That way you just slip new cables into the slots, you don't have to worry about nailing new staples in every time..

Otherwise if you want it in a conduit (and FYI the word conduit includes both metal [EMT] and PVC), just pull individual conductors (and a pull string or two for future pulls) to the junction box. Don't know what else to tell you..
 
  #3  
Old 01-15-14, 10:27 PM
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Unfortunately stackers are not an option. The foam board insulation come right down to the very top of the 2 X 6's so the only exposed side is the 1 1/2" edge, and they have about a 1/2" offset from the top edge of the cinder block. In a short sentence, the edge of the 2X is not flush with the cinder block.
 
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Old 01-15-14, 10:36 PM
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Ok so you need to literally hang it from the bottom face of the joist.. You'll have to use conduit and individual THWN conductors then. Romex is totally out of the question. You can't staple it to the face of a joist.
 
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Old 01-15-14, 11:30 PM
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I'm running at least (1) 110V 20A circuit and (1) 220V 20A circuit from the sub-panel to the back of the garage...and want room for expansion.
Why not make a single run of conduit with a four-wire feeder to another sub-panel? And what do you have against PVC conduit?
 
  #6  
Old 01-15-14, 11:46 PM
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I don't have against PVC in general, but in the last two wood shops I was in there was PVC in place and it would develop a static charge and then there would be sawdust cobwebs hanging all over it, then the fire hazard goes up. I've thought about the sub panel, but from the only place I could place the panel, I run into the identical problem, because I would have to back track the cable about 8' for at least one circuit.
 
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Old 01-16-14, 03:32 AM
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I suspect that it is spiders that cause the cobwebs and then flying sawdust sticks to the web. I have a terrible problem with the cobwebs and it is not limited to the areas where I have PVC conduit. I have to periodically use my shop vac with a long wand and the round brush all over the ceiling to remove the cobwebs. I find that it is the "daddy long legs" spiders that do the dirty work.

As for the problem in locating the sub-panel...nothing in life is perfect and having to backtrack eight feet is a small price to pay in my opinion. When it comes time to add yet another circuit having the sub-panel will likely return the lost time/money of the original installation.
 
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Old 01-16-14, 06:39 AM
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Why not make a single run of conduit with a four-wire feeder to another sub-panel?
That's also what I was thinking as I was reading the thread.
 
  #9  
Old 01-17-14, 07:30 AM
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After spending some time yesterday staring at the problem, 2nd sub-panel it is. I think I was over-thinking it in the first place. Thanks for the help guys.
 
  #10  
Old 01-18-14, 03:04 AM
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In our city , PVC conduit is not allowed , exposed in a building . It is claimed , in case of a fire , the burning PVC greatly contributes to the toxic smoke . Which it would .

But there are so many plastics / synthetics in our buildings / lives , the PVC conduit would be just one of many sources of toxic smoke .

So , if I had to do this , I would run EMT .

God bless
Wyr
 
  #11  
Old 01-18-14, 06:46 AM
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In our city , PVC conduit is not allowed , exposed in a building . It is claimed , in case of a fire , the burning PVC greatly contributes to the toxic smoke . Which it would .


Do they also not allow PVC DWV pipe or PVC/CPVC potable water piping?
 
  #12  
Old 01-18-14, 07:21 AM
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exposed in a building
That is the key words. PVC is typically not used on commercial buildings for the smoke issue. This is not a concern in residential settings.

I also agree with the others about installing a sub panel. You would only have to run one feeder and would have room for expansion. Even if you would have to back track for some of the branch circuits I think the time and convenience of having a panel in the shop would outweigh the cost of the back track. Careful planing would reduce the cost to just a couple of wires.
 
  #13  
Old 01-19-14, 05:13 AM
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That is legal .

Did not say it made sense . If you try to make sense out of what a government organization does , you are in for a very frustrating life ! :-(

Schedule 80 PVC can be used , exposed , outside .

I agree , a sub-panel would be a good idea . Just be sure you run 2 hots , a neutral an an earth ground to it

God bless
Wyr
 
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