TV power cord in wall?

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Old 01-17-14, 11:40 PM
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TV power cord in wall?

I know this is usually not allowed as the cord is not CL-2 rated. But my new Samsung plasma cord, which disconnects at the TV, has the following "N.M. UL 18/3 (shielded)" It has more with numbers and all, but I don't know exactly what all is on it as can't look right now. But the fact that it says N.M. made me think that this cord can be run in the wall. I know that modern wire is N.M.-B, but I thought NM could be used but may need adjustment for ampacity rating (such as using 60 degree instead of 90 degree).
 
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Old 01-18-14, 01:25 AM
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It is NM cable..... non metallic.... but it is not approved for wiring inside a wall.
I've never seen a power cord rated for "in wall" use.
 
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Old 01-18-14, 06:44 AM
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The wiring that you buy at store for wiring your house is NM-B, but it doesn't say CL-2 on it. So how can you differentiate that that wire can be used in wall (which of course it can because that is what it is made for) and this cord cannot given they both are labeled the same (except the -B part)?
 
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Old 01-18-14, 07:13 AM
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I am not sure what the TV cord rating is. The NM-B is a recognized wiring method for use in wall.
 
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Old 01-18-14, 08:27 AM
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So how can you differentiate that that wire can be used in wall (which of course it can because that is what it is made for) and this cord cannot given they both are labeled the same (except the -B part)?
For one thing, 120 volt wiring to be run through a wall must be no smaller than #14. Rule of thumb is no cord in walls. If you look at the NEC and types of wire/cable acceptable for premises wiring and their descriptions, you will not find your 18-3 shielded cord.
 
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Old 01-18-14, 09:11 AM
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why don't the tv manufacturers put a cord that can be put in wall? with these flat panels, that is what the majority want to give nice clean look. It isn't that big a deal for me since there is receptacle that I can bring right up the wall and already have hole cut within the mount for a box. but if I could I was just going to put low voltage box and cut hole in a blank cover for the cord. guess I will have to put a full box in there.

I have cord now and here is exactly what it reads:

N.M. (UL) SVT E159216 VW-1 300V 105 degrees C 3x18AWG (SHIELDED)

and

CSA SVT LL112007 VW-1 300V 105degrees C 3x0.824mm squared (18AWG) (SHIELDED) LF

I assume the second is for Canada?
 
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Old 01-18-14, 10:08 AM
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why don't the tv manufacturers put a cord that can be put in wall?
Good question... someone could probably make some money developing a cord that is UL listed for in-wall and out-of-wall use.

I think the main reason is that no manufacturer has wanted to spend the money to get a UL (or CSA or the equivalent EU) listing for an item that they probably buy for a few cents.
 
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Old 01-18-14, 10:11 AM
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yes, CSA is a Canadian spec. No "cordage" in walls, even 14AWG and larger. It's not designed for structure wiring. It's not usually difficult to put in a flush receptacle hidden behind the TV. It's the correct thing to do; many have CATV/RG6/Ethernet provisions. Big box orange has them, as do most others.
 
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Old 01-18-14, 10:50 AM
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I recommend this for you sir.

Leviton | Duplex Single Gang Recessed Receptacle,White | Home Depot Canada

There are also 2 gang versions meant for a receptacle on one side and data jacks/coax/hdmi etc. on the other side, but I have only seen them at electrical distributors, no depot-like stores.
It won't let you completely tuck your cord, but that is something a tye wrap can solve.
 
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Old 01-18-14, 11:09 AM
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but if I could I was just going to put low voltage box and cut hole in a blank cover for the cord.
What were you going to do with the plug once you had the cord in the wall ?
 
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Old 01-18-14, 11:41 AM
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Arlington has a power and lv box that can be installed in new work or old work.

Aifittings.com
 
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Old 01-18-14, 12:03 PM
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I recommend this for you sir.

Leviton | Duplex Single Gang Recessed Receptacle,White | Home Depot Canada

There are also 2 gang versions meant for a receptacle on one side and data jacks/coax/hdmi etc. on the other side, but I have only seen them at electrical distributors, no depot-like stores.
It won't let you completely tuck your cord, but that is something a tye wrap can solve.
That is almost like what we used to call a clock receptacle here, only a clock receptacle is a simplex device and usually only available in 15 amp. They still have the clock hook on them, but now call them "Home Audio" receptacles.

Brand Features

For an almost invisible installation behind wall-mounted TVs, entertainment centers, monitors and more, connect with Leviton Recessed Devices.
688-T > Recessed Devices > Home Audio > Connected Home > Products from Leviton Electrical and Electronic Products
 
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Old 01-18-14, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hammerash View Post
why don't the tv manufacturers put a cord that can be put in wall? with these flat panels, that is what the majority want to give nice clean look. It isn't that big a deal for me since there is receptacle that I can bring right up the wall and already have hole cut within the mount for a box. but if I could I was just going to put low voltage box and cut hole in a blank cover for the cord. guess I will have to put a full box in there.

I have cord now and here is exactly what it reads:

N.M. (UL) SVT E159216 VW-1 300V 105 degrees C 3x18AWG (SHIELDED)

and

CSA SVT LL112007 VW-1 300V 105degrees C 3x0.824mm squared (18AWG) (SHIELDED) LF

I assume the second is for Canada?
SVT is also known as vacuum cord. It's classified as a flexible cord (same as an extension cord) for NEC purposes

400.8 Uses Not Permitted .
Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:
(1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure
(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors
(3) Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings
(4) Where attached to building surfaces
Exception: Flexible cord and cable shall be permitted to be attached to building surfaces in accordance with the provisions of 368.8.
(5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings
(6) Where installed in raceways, except as otherwise permitted in this Code
They don't make an in-wall rated cord because there is no such thing according to code. It would involve a code change, nothing to do with the manufacturers.

When you mount a TV, it is assumed that you will either use a surface mount channel, or you will be installing all of the necessary wiring in-wall. That includes power.
 
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Old 01-18-14, 12:59 PM
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What were you going to do with the plug once you had the cord in the wall ?

widen the cutout at the receptacle below, put a low voltage extender on the existing box, put two gang faceplate on with a hole for cord, run cord out and then plug in to the receptacle. Note that I am going to build a unit to house cable box , blu ray, etc and I will build it and attach to wall so the receptacle is within it so you wouldn't see it.
 
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Old 01-18-14, 02:58 PM
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No, you can't do that. You have to either install a permanently live outlet at the TV, or install a "inlet" connector down below, wired to an outlet at the TV. Basically it creates an in-wall rated extension cord so that you can plug your TV into the same surge protector/power conditioner/UPS as the rest of the system down below.

 
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Old 01-18-14, 03:26 PM
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Yes, I see that now since I can't run the cord in the wall. As stated previously, I am just going to put an outlet at TV. And since Samsung put a flat style plug, putting recessed plug at TV won't work well. But I already cut out drywall in a cutout in the wall mount for the outlet and I will coil it up leaving enough slack for the extension/ pivot of the mount and it should be hidden pretty well.
 
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Old 01-18-14, 07:20 PM
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Aside from wiring, could you not look for a wall mount for your tv that allows a couple of inches of room behind the tv?
 
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Old 01-18-14, 07:41 PM
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You could build a small alcove, perhaps 8"x8", behind the TV and put a surface mount receptacle in it if a recessed receptacle doesn't have room for the cord. You could even mount a surface box for ant AV cables.
 
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Old 01-18-14, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by hammerash View Post
And since Samsung put a flat style plug, putting recessed plug at TV won't work well.
You said it disconnects at the TV, right? It should have this at the TV end?



You can buy a short replacement with straight plugs for a couple dollars at several online sources.

3ft 18AWG Power Cord Cable w/ 3 Conductor PC Power Connector Socket (C13/5-15P) - Black - Monoprice.com

Originally Posted by Mr.Awesome View Post
Aside from wiring, could you not look for a wall mount for your tv that allows a couple of inches of room behind the tv?
The mount isn't the issue - from what I understand it is an articulating mount, which will not have clearance issues. What he is saying is that the cord that came with the TV has a right angle plug on it, which won't fit into a recessed outlet.
 
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Old 01-18-14, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
You could build a small alcove, perhaps 8"x8", behind the TV and put a surface mount receptacle in it if a recessed receptacle doesn't have room for the cord. You could even mount a surface box for ant AV cables.
There's actually a really cool box specifically designed to do exactly that..

Recessed Media Box Black - Monoprice.com

I've used them in several of my installs. Basically it's 4-gang, and it has three holes (one on each side) that are single-gang size. You mount an old-work box to either the top or bottom for the power inlet, then the others can be used for the A/V. You then mount the whole thing into the wall using old work tabs. There is a rubber-grommeted faceplate to finish it off. You just feed all the wires through before you attach the plate.
 
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Old 01-18-14, 08:36 PM
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Nice but it says low voltage in the description.
 
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Old 01-18-14, 08:44 PM
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It can be used as-is for low voltage, or as I said you can attach an old-work box to it for line voltage.

 
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Old 01-18-14, 08:59 PM
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Missed that. Thanks for clearing that up. That is exactly what I envisioned but better executed.
 
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Old 01-19-14, 01:01 AM
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The Arlington box has different configurations. One of these should allow a flat plug to fit.
 
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Old 01-19-14, 11:10 AM
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What he is saying is that the cord that came with the TV has a right angle plug on it, which won't fit into a recessed outlet.
Then he could use a regular duplex receptacle in a cut-in box and won't need the recesssed audio receptacle.
 
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Old 01-19-14, 12:10 PM
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PC Boss, I have some Arlington boxes already. I put them in above my fireplace in living room and bedroom where I planned for TV. The TV I am putting up was not planned but seemed like nice room to have one. Here is my living room:



close up of box:


problem is the wall mount I have won't work with these boxes as the cutout on wall plate isn't big enough:



so here is what I am doing:


on left is going to be receptacle and right is low voltage. Only issue I see is that when TV is pushed all the way against wall, it may crush cords. I won't know for sure until I get everything hooked up. I may but Leviton recessed duplex box and then get new cord as mentioned above because I will be plugged in my soundbar here as well. I was going to use a Leviton surge suppression receptacle here, but I am pretty sure that the cords will get hit if I don't recess receptacle. The problem with the Leviton recessed receptacle is that it has receptacle integrated with face plate-I can't use my surge suppression receptacle. I am looking for recessed setup that is standard size that will let me use my own surge suppression receptacle. I like the powerbridge setup mentioned above as it would let me connect TV to surge suppression device that I could put in hidden cabinet below TV, but the problem is that it only provides one receptacle up near TV and I need two-one for TV and one for soundbar.
 
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Old 01-19-14, 01:10 PM
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Those surge suppressor receptacles aren't going to offer you much protection - especially given what they cost. The better way is to install one of the inlet plates I mentioned down below, and that will allow you to plug the TV into a quality surge strip with a connected equipment warranty.

And FYI those holes are not designed to be a place for you to mount the boxes - because they are right where the bars fold into, and yes you will crush things. You're supposed to install them above or below the bracket.
 
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Old 01-19-14, 01:19 PM
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I have whole house surge suppression already. I installed Square D surge supressors in each of my main panels. The Leviton units do only provide about 700-800 Joules of protection but that combined with the units on panel I thought probably sufficient. I do like the powerbridge units and ability to then put tv on surge strip with cable box, Blu-ray, etc., but as mentioned they only provide one receptacle up top. I need two. They make one with two, but it also includes low voltage, which I don't want-I want to separate them away from each other, I don't know why you would want them running right alongside the line voltage? It is also too big to fit in the cutout of the mount as shown above. I could get one, and then short cord from it and then split it, but that might be difficult to do in the space.
 
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Old 01-19-14, 01:43 PM
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You don't have to use the top part of the powerbridge, you can install a regular duplex. Alternatively you can get a Hubbell flanged inlet and mount it to a blank plate (I'm not sure, but it may also fit through the hole in a simplex plate).
 
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Old 01-19-14, 02:26 PM
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A few years ago I installed an in wall surge suppressor for my TV made by Monster. I don't know if they still make it or not, but it was a 2 gang box with a low voltage ring. It had one duplex receptacle, the surge suppressor, and the low voltage hook ups. You were able to wire any number of outlets to the surge suppressor that you wanted. House Projects - a set on Flickr
 
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Old 01-19-14, 06:22 PM
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well I looked more at powerbridge and it looks like some of their kits you use regular romex wire and the units go into regular outlet boxes. other kits use two pieces of wire that have a click connector and they connect to each other. getting the first type I could use only the lower portion and up top put in a duplex receptacle. Then could use surge suppressor down below hidden to feed upper unit (if necessary-see below). Going to call them to see if they would sell me only lower unit. don't need upper unit, romex, outlet boxes, extension cord. I doubt they will but worth a call.

as far as surge suppression, the panel units provide only 900 Joules protection but really, do you need more? That should handle any surges from power company fine. It won't handle lightning strike, but will anything really handle that? except maybe $250 unit at entrance?

sorry taz420 didn't see your previous post about not using upper portion of powerbridge. looked at Hubbell unit but I don't know how that gets mounted. trying to find info on that
 

Last edited by hammerash; 01-19-14 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 01-19-14, 07:25 PM
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well I don't think the Hubbell flanged inlet would really work. looks like mounts in metal outdoor weatherproof box.
 
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