receptacle grounding

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Old 02-02-14, 08:37 PM
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receptacle grounding

Hi, new here, and this is probably a really dumb question, but is there any possible way that some receptacles on a circuit could be properly grounded if ones upstream from them are not?
 
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Old 02-02-14, 08:49 PM
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is there any possible way that some receptacles on a circuit could be properly grounded if ones upstream from them are not
Only if they have their own independent ground wire back to the breaker box. That wire would not have to be part of the original cable.
 
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Old 02-02-14, 09:14 PM
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That wouldn't be code-compliant, would it?
 
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Old 02-02-14, 11:33 PM
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Welcome to the forums!

is there any possible way that some receptacles on a circuit could be properly grounded if ones upstream from them are not?
Ray answered the question "Is there a way to provide a ground to some receptacles without providing it to the ones that are between it and the panel?"

The answer to your next question,
That wouldn't be code-compliant, would it?
is yes, done properly, running an independent grounding conductor from the distribution panel to any outlet that doesn't have one is in full compliance with the NEC.

But there's also the question of whether some receptacles on a circuit might be grounded while others upstream of them are not, as an existing condition, and there's a second answer to that. That is, if a path to ground is provided in an outlet but the device mounted in that outlet is not bonded to that path, then that device will not be grounded.

Which condition are you asking about?
 
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Old 02-03-14, 08:52 AM
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is there any possible way that some receptacles on a circuit could be properly grounded if ones upstream from them are not?
It's also possible that some of the upstream receptacles didn't have the ground wire attached to the grounding screw on the devices while some downstream devices did.
 
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Old 02-03-14, 09:00 AM
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It's also possible that some of the upstream receptacles didn't have the ground wire attached to the grounding screw on the devices
Add in a switch box in the mix that the cable passes through*, one with older ungrounded switches, and the probability increase a bit.

*Passes through but not necessarily controlled by.
 
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Old 02-03-14, 10:49 AM
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Hmmm, I thought I had read that ground conductors needed to be in the same cable or conduit as the other conductors to be code compliant. I don't think it's a case of forgetting to connect the ground to the first 2 boxes, the cable is that black cloth covered romex from the 40s or 50s, it's only got 2 conductors. I can't even figure out where the ground conductor is attached, all the cables to the first floor go through the basement ceiling but I haven't been able to find the ground that goes to these outlets. It doesn't look like a bootleg ground either, I just got done replacing all the outlets (with 3 prong protected by a gfci at the beginning of the circuit.) and didn't see any neutrals connected to the boxes (all metallic boxes), and I don't think there are any switches before the first receptacle. I don't understand why someone would run a separate ground to only some of the outlets when it would have been the same amount of work to just run new romex to all of them. I guess after all the reverse polarity outlets and the diy "electrical box" that I found (a three stud corner post with a hole chisled to accomodate the wiring for an outdoor floodlight, on its own dedicated 20 amp circuit, no less) I should just be thankful I haven't found anything connected with speaker wire so far. Anyway, thanks for the answers. Can anyone point out where in the code it allows for separate ground conductors on NM cable runs?
 
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Old 02-03-14, 11:01 AM
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Hmmm, I thought I had read that ground conductors needed to be in the same cable or conduit as the other conductors to be code compliant.
No, that applies to the current carrying conductors. Ground isn't a current carrying conductor except in a fault situation. If you have old style BX cable a meter may show ground but it is from the metal jacket and is not considered a reliable bond. Newer metallic cable contains a bonding strip under the metal spirals or a ground wire. See 250.13
(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch
Circuit Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor
of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension
shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:
(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode sys-
tem as described in 250.50
(2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode con-
ductor
(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the en-
closure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or
branch circuit originates
(4) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor
within the service equipment enclosure
(5) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar
within the service equipment enclosure
 
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Old 02-03-14, 06:46 PM
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It is a code exception that allows a grounding conductor to be run the the receptacles.
 
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Old 02-03-14, 08:22 PM
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I just got done replacing all the outlets... and didn't see any neutrals connected to the boxes...
Good! At least whoever worked on it before didn't bond neutral to ground after the service entrance. Whew!
 
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