Missing knockout tab and soldered connection


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Old 02-13-14, 02:43 PM
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Missing knockout tab and soldered connection

My son replaced a fixture for me. He snapped a picture of the box before he put the lamp up.

I noticed that there was a missing knockout in the box. You can see the foil back of some insulation thru it.

Is this a fire hazard?

Also one of the joints was a soldered, instead of remaking the connection he snipped the soldered splice (3 wires) to the proper length for a red wire nut. Should he have resnipped and redone the soldered splice?

I hate to have him take it all apart to address these issues, he's bound to damage the fixture, wiring or freshly painted ceiling.
 
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Old 02-13-14, 02:55 PM
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there was a missing knockout in the box
You should install a replacement to maintain the fire rating.
he snipped the soldered splice (3 wires) to the proper length for a red wire nut.
That is acceptable but if the connection was good it didn't need to be done. If the tape was coming off it could have bee replaced either with modern electrical tape or old school, rubber tape covered by friction tape.
 
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Old 02-13-14, 03:33 PM
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Pop in a knockout filler.
https://idw.ideaservices.net/files/11043/S100_2.jpg

Ray,
How does losing a knockout mean the box lost its fire rating, but the holes in it are acceptable?
 
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Old 02-13-14, 03:36 PM
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Ray,
How does losing a knockout mean the box lost its fire rating, but the holes in it are acceptable?
Normally there would be a device such as a cable connector in the hole taking the place of the knockout.
 
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Old 02-13-14, 03:40 PM
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That I get, but put it this way...
hole in box = bad. but box has multiple small holes already.
Doesn't make sense to me.
 
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Old 02-13-14, 03:45 PM
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There was actually 2 holes. I had him put in knockout seals. Hopefully he didn't seal up a hole that had a conduit connected to it or wires that weren't visible from inside the box....

We are assuming there would be no way to cover up a hole with a seal if a pipe was connected to it... is that correct?

Heres from my son who is here now....

"man it was hard to insert the metal knockout seals. I had to bend the teeth a bit on them to be able to push it thru the hole... is that normal or should they pop right in??

oh and btw: I inserted them from the inside... obviously couldn't gain access to the above. Is that kosher?
 
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Old 02-13-14, 04:06 PM
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Normally a k.o. seal is installed from the outside and the tabs are flattened over on the inside.
In your case you have no choice. Everything is ok as long as the seals fit snug and don't fall in.
 
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Old 02-13-14, 04:26 PM
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I apologize for playing the devils advocate here, but I think this was totally unneccesary...

can someone site a code requirement for knockout seals in this case?

First they are installed wrong, you pushed them in from the inside and you altered them by bending the tabs to have them fit. You would knock them in with a your kleins and a screwdriver if you had the space to do so.....

What happens if they pop back into the box and lay there on top of the wiring? Short waiting to happen?

Maybe one of the ""pros"" can clarify, but I would pull them out of the boxes if I were you...I doubt your box is any less "fire rated" with or without seals and I don't know of one electrician who would install a knockout seal in a ceiling fixture box.... maybe a panel I can see.
 
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Old 02-13-14, 06:08 PM
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can someone site a code requirement for knockout seals in this case?
110.12(a) ..............................
 
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Old 02-13-14, 06:16 PM
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I think this was totally unneccesary...
Would you find it unnecessary to install a KO seal on a 2" hole in the side of a pull box?

Yup, 110.12(a)

KO seals can be installed either from the inside or outside. The steel kind do not require the "fingers" to be folded over, it just can help to keep them in place if you do. I personally like the plastic KO seals, MUCH easier to install.
 
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Old 02-14-14, 04:42 AM
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Would you find it unnecessary to install a KO seal on a 2" hole in the side of a pull box?
This is in a ceiling box with 1/2" knockouts so this is besides the point.

I personally like the plastic KO seals, MUCH easier to install.
Isnt adding plastic to metal a (minor) violation as well?

I have never heard of someone installing a knockout from the inside so perhaps we are giving the OP a pass on an otherwise shoddy installation.
 
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Old 02-14-14, 07:05 AM
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The small holes are part of a listed assembly and were tested and met the requirements. A missing knockout would allow a much greater chance of an arc escaping into the wall cavity. Anyone that did not install a seal in a knockout is not following code and is practicing poor workmanship.

As was already said above there is a requirement for them to be used.

Installing from the inside is sometimes the only choice.
 
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Old 02-14-14, 08:24 AM
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This is in a ceiling box with 1/2" knockouts so this is besides the point.
It still needs a KO closer by code.

Isnt adding plastic to metal a (minor) violation as well?
Not that I am aware of. Can you provide a code reference?

I have never heard of someone installing a knockout from the inside so perhaps we are giving the OP a pass on an otherwise shoddy installation.
Not installing a KO closer at all would be a shoddy installation.
 
 

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