Two wall outlets not working in kitchen.

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  #1  
Old 03-11-14, 02:40 PM
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Two wall outlets not working in kitchen.

Ok, so I have a little issue ever since I replaced some outlets and a switch in my kitchen. I probably should first note that this is an old house so the wiring is a little different than most houses now.

I replaced 3 outlets and a wall switch. One of those outlets was in a box with a switch that controls the light above the sink. The light switch still works but the outlet in the box with it doesn't. Also the outlet to the right of that one isn't working either but the other ones that are on the circuit with it are. I should also note that there is only one wire that is hot in the combo box and that is the black one in the middle with electrical tape on it. Everything was working fine until I hooked that switch and new outlet up. I read somewhere about removing the jumpers on the new outlets. I think the old 1950 outlets didnt have jumpers. Has anyone had an issue similar to the this one, or could someone possibly help me out on what I am doing wrong. Much appreciated. Thanks
 
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  #2  
Old 03-11-14, 02:55 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

I see the box down low between the cabinets. Looks like two 12-2 cables there. That wiring should be pretty straightforward.

Are your next four pictures all of the same box ?
I think you mentioned three boxes.
Looks like an awful lot of tape on those wires or are those splices ?
 
  #3  
Old 03-11-14, 04:30 PM
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Thank you. I checked out the wiring and it looks like 14-2. I've ready changed a few outlets throughout the house and they were all pretty much straight forward in terms of simplicity. I did. have a gfci outlet on the one down below between the cabinets be cause that is where I'm running the extension cord for the disposer at.

I probably should rewrite the entire house but that would cost a fortune and we are already to deep into this remodeling job as it is so I'm just going with what I got for now.

Yes all four of those pictures are of the same box. I'll attach some more closer pics so you can see it better.

I've attached a panoramic picture of all of the outlets that are on this circuit. The two on the left work fine, and the two on the right don't. The one on the very right side of the counter is on a different circuit .

Yea it's a pretty tough wiring job that was done. Every outlet in the house was two prong so that's why I changed them out. I'm not worried about the ground wire at the moment, as I know that isn't up to code. I'm just trying to get it all connected properly right now.

So just to clarify. The second outlet, the combo box (outlet and switch), and the one to the right down below is the 3rd outlet I changed on this circuit.

Something keeps telling me that the jumpers on the outlet in the combo box is the issue I'm not sure though .
 
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Old 03-11-14, 04:44 PM
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While you are trying to figure this out you need to find the first receptacle on each circuit and install GFI protecion. It is required for kitchen countertop receptacles and also where 3 prong devices are used without a ground.

The tabs are removed when you have two circuits or when half the device is switched.
 
  #5  
Old 03-11-14, 04:52 PM
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Excuse my lack of knowledge on this field, but how do you know where the first outlet of the circuit is located at? And do you have any advice on the two outlets not working? Thank you.
 
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Old 03-11-14, 05:11 PM
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how do you know where the first outlet of the circuit is located at
You will need a multimeter, preferably, analog, or a solenoid tester. Do you have one? A $8-$15 analog (not digital) multimeter is fine for the job. Choose a circuit breaker, turn the breaker off and remove all of the receptacles in boxes on that circuit that have two or more cables. Position all the wires so they are not touching and easy to test. Turn the breaker on and check all the cables for voltage. The cable that is ~120 volts is in the first box. All other cables on that circuit should be dead. If not post back.
 
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Old 03-11-14, 06:38 PM
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And install a GFCI outlet on the one box that is producing 120 volts? Yea I don't have one of those. Only a tester, but I'm going to go get one and do that throughout out the house. Thank you for that tip. Makes a lot of since for when you are dealing with an ungrounded house like this. Is there a particular diagram or explanation for how this combo outlet and switch are supposed to be connected? Thanks again.
 
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Old 03-11-14, 06:58 PM
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You will need a multimeter, preferably, analog, or a solenoid tester. Do you have one? A $8-$15 analog (not digital) multimeter is fine for the job.
Ray, I think its time you just put that line in your signature lol.


Is the hot in the picture of the fingers holding it your only hot in that box?
If so, did you just place it on the switch? If it is your only hot and the rest of the receptacles are fed off of it you will need to pigtail it to feed the switch and the receptacle.
 
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Old 03-11-14, 07:36 PM
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Yea the one that I am holding is the only one that is hot. I've been looking at pics and diagrams for the past 3 hours so I have a more clear picture of what I'm dealing with now.

Yea I just placed it on the switch.

So jump the one hot wire so 3 wires come from it and then connect one to the switch and the other two to the outlet? So the black wires that are connected to the outlet do I just connect those wires with the new ones coming from the one hot wire?

I'm guessing power is running through this outlet and to the other outlet below the cabinets to the right. That could explain why it has no power. And thank you for the help.
 
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Old 03-11-14, 07:48 PM
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So jump the one hot wire so 3 wires come from it and then connect one to the switch and the other two to the outlet?
Almost. Unless the tab has been removed you only need one black wire to the receptacle so two pigtails not three. If the tab has been removed my preference is to replace the receptacle so only one wire is needed.
 
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Old 03-11-14, 07:58 PM
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Ok great. What about the wires that were already connected to the outlet? I'm guessing pigtail those too? Because if they're both hot and if I have a new outlet with a tab connected then I will just need to pigtail both of the black wires that were already connected to it with the new hot wire and just connect it to one side?
Thanks.
 
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Old 03-11-14, 08:01 PM
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Yes. Line is the hot wire. There is only one hot wire. All other wires are load. All load wires are connected to the line. In this case the pigtail would be one of the load wires.
 
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Old 03-11-14, 08:03 PM
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Thats one thing I'm curious about. When you took it apart, how was each wire connected?
 
  #14  
Old 03-11-14, 10:07 PM
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Your guess is as good as mine. I have figured this out though. Went in the attic and figured out where all of the wires are running to from the box. This combo box is connected to the wall outlet on the right below, to the light above the sink, a power wire running up to the vent hood(which I took out), and it' has another line running behind the dishwasher right below the box. That wire was literally just pushed through that box and down the wall and someone cut out a square right under it and it was just sitting there not connected to anything. I have no idea what it was even hooked up to. That's where I am going to run the power to the disposal now I guess.

This new wire that isn't connected to anything is a 12-2 with ground. What's the difference in a 12-2 and 12-4 and do you think it will be ok to run that lone wire to the disposal since I'll have a gfci on the main outlet on this circuit? I have an air switch for the disposal that I am using. Thanks.
 
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Old 03-11-14, 10:23 PM
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I meant 14-2 not 12-4. Sorry.
 
  #16  
Old 03-11-14, 10:59 PM
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Garbage disposals do not require a GFCI. By current code the GD can't be on the same circuit as the counter top receptacles. The GD can be on a 15 amp circuit using #14 wire. The 12-2 could be on a 20 amp breaker if it originates at the breaker box. You wiring will vary because of grandfathering but get as close to current code as you can.
 

Last edited by pcboss; 03-12-14 at 05:23 AM. Reason: breaker size was 51
  #17  
Old 03-11-14, 11:29 PM
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I don't know what going on with me today but I meant to say 12-4 instead of 14-2, but don't worry about it.

So do you think if the disposal is connected to this circuit, which the microwave is hooked up to, and say suppose the microwave and disposal we're on at the same time then it would come close to blowing a fuse, depending on the amps the microwave puts out? And by the way, this is a 60 amp fuse box that we have so I would have to guess I don't have anything close to a 51 amp circuit. If that's the case then what would you suggest? I could easily run just one wire from the fuse box to the disposal if that's possible? Is it the bigger wiring that makes it carry more power? How can you regulate how much power you bring to a circuit?

I attached a picture of the breaker box as well.
Thanks again
 
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Old 03-12-14, 05:46 AM
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The white wire in the single gang box need to have the nick in the insulation repaired.

Also i would remove the double gang box to check the cables and to install cable connectors. Those look like taped splices instead of wire nuts.
 
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Old 03-12-14, 09:03 AM
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I attached a picture of the breaker box as well.
That would be a fuse panel, not a breaker panel.
 
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Old 03-12-14, 09:18 AM
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I meant 15 amp not 51, Jim corrected it. See you are not the only one that mistypes.
 
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