Conduit for cat-5 cable

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  #1  
Old 03-14-14, 04:56 PM
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Conduit for cat-5 cable

We're wanting to run some CAT5 (CAT5e) ethernet cable outdoors about 100 feet to where we're planning on installing a surveillance camera or two of this type: Search results - Security Cameras Manufacturer | Security Wholesaler - Veilux.net
The route to the camera site is through a wooded/forest area where the ground terrain is very uneven and the routing along the ground for the cable will need to wind around such obstacles as trees and tree stumps etc. What kind of flexible conduit is available for such a purpose? Probably will be trying to bury the most of this conduit a reasonable depth so it's not just lying directly on the ground. I've seen what's called poly pipe I think used sometimes for water lines in such similar situations where such flexibility is required. But the poly pipe I just referred to has barbed connectors (couplers) that fit on the inside and the pipe ends need to be heated to fit those. I'd prefer a similar type stuff but which had couplers that fit on the outside of the pipe and that just slide on over it. Any suggestions/comments appreciated.
 

Last edited by sgull; 03-14-14 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 03-14-14, 05:01 PM
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For two or 3 cables, 3/4'' PVC and direct burial cat5 cable. You can get a cheap heat gun, heat up the PVC, and mold it to bend any way you need to. Plus PVC is easy to paint so it you run it up a tree or wherever your cameras are going you can paint it to blend.
 
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Old 03-14-14, 06:02 PM
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I'd been thinking PVC pipe too, but thought although it bends it's not as flexible as the poly pipe I mentioned (I don't think anyway; I could be mistaken about that). The wall thickness of this (3/4") poly pipe stuff I mentioned is only 1/16", so it bends/flexes quite readily. But isn't the wall thickness of 3/4" inch PVC pipe considerably more thick than 1/16" so not nearly as "bendy"?
 
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Old 03-14-14, 06:05 PM
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The poly pipe can be hard to bend and have it stay bent. It also kinks very easily.
 
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Old 03-14-14, 06:06 PM
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You can heat pvc and it turns into a noodle. Before it hardens you can manipulate it into whatever shape you need.
 
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Old 03-14-14, 06:10 PM
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Okay I didn't realize I could just heat the PVC and manipulate it that easy. I have a heat gun. So, sounds like the way to go then. Thanks!

Edit: Sorry 'bout the misspelling of conduit in the title of my thread here. I tried to edit it to correct it but it didn't change in the thread listing here in the forum for some reason.
 
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Old 03-14-14, 06:49 PM
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Edit: Sorry 'bout the misspelling of conduit in the title of my thread here. I tried to edit it to correct it but it didn't change in the thread listing here in the forum for some reason.
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No problem ...... you can change the title only in your first post. I corrected the thread title.
 
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Old 03-14-14, 06:50 PM
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When heat-bending PVC it's best to fill it with dry sand first to keep it from kinking/collapsing. Then once it's cooled empty it out and bury it.
 
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Old 03-14-14, 07:00 PM
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Yeah thanks JerseyMatt. I gave the heating of the PVC a little practice run on a scrap piece just a while ago but it ended up like the "bad" example picture here (where no sand was used) HOW TO BEND PVC PIPE . Then I came across the how-to and read about using the sand, as well as the other methods mentioned there. So I'll be doing some more practice and see how it goes.
 
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Old 03-14-14, 07:04 PM
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I corrected the thread title.
Thanks PJ for correcting.
 
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Old 03-14-14, 07:09 PM
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Heat up a larger area on the pipe. That will help prevent kinks as you have more of a flexible area to work with.
 
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Old 03-14-14, 07:33 PM
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So far the scrap piece of PVC I practiced on happened to be SDR21, thin-walled compared to regular schedule 40. I'm gonna have to purchase whatever PVC pipe I do use for this project so am wondering if I should just get schedule 40 or more of that SDR21 for this particular purpose? I'm thinking the SDR21 might be less expensive but don't know yet.
 
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Old 03-14-14, 09:23 PM
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I believe the 360 degree of bends rule still applies to low voltage cable. Why not just bury the direct burial cable?
 
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Old 03-14-14, 09:45 PM
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He could just bury it, but if it gets wrecked or he changes cameras to something requiring coax for example, he can just pull the new cable in rather than dig it all up again. Plus if it is a foresty area I feel the pvc will stand up to tree roots better than bare cable.
Just my opinion.
 
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Old 03-14-14, 09:48 PM
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I wouldn't leave unprotected cable in the woods, even buried. Too many critters with big teeth.

I assume power is the reason you're running CAT5 versus using one that runs on WiFi? You'll be using a 802.3af PoE injector?

Otherwise I would look into the feasibility of building a small box to mount in the tree containing a couple alarm batteries and a solar charger, and using a WiFi IP cam. I've done that for cameras monitoring oil well pumps and pivot sprinklers - but those are on a pole in the middle of a field where they get 12 hours of full sun a day, not the woods.. In your situation it would depend on how much canopy there is and how much sun gets through.
 
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Old 03-14-14, 10:30 PM
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The person supplying the equipment for me is apparently planning on providing this specific CAT5, which looks as if it's not the direct burial type. 500 ft. Cat-5E Control Cable | CAT-5E-500 - 2M CCTV I suppose ideally the direct burial type, even within the PVC conduit, would be the most durable way to go. But I would also suppose the regular CAT5 enclosed within the PVC conduit wouldn't be getting exposed to much in the way of environmental extremes and for my purposes would suffice.

Yes Matt, power is the reason I'm using CAT5 versus Wi-Fi. And yes will using a 802.3af PoE injector.

Any response to my inquiry post #12? Still wondering about that... In regard to using the comparatively thin-walled PVC, heating and bending that, as opposed to the "regular" wall size PVC schedule 40 stuff.

Thanks again..
 

Last edited by sgull; 03-14-14 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 03-14-14, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.Awesome View Post
He could just bury it, but if it gets wrecked or he changes cameras to something requiring coax for example, he can just pull the new cable in rather than dig it all up again. Plus if it is a foresty area I feel the pvc will stand up to tree roots better than bare cable.
Just my opinion.
There would be no circumstance where you would switch to coax. The entire surveillance industry is shifting to IP cams. Analog/coax cams are dinosaurs.

Originally Posted by sgull View Post

Any response to my inquiry post #12? Still wondering about that... In regard to using the comparatively thin-walled PVC, heating and bending that, as opposed to the "regular" wall size PVC schedule 40 stuff.

Thanks again..
Honestly never used SDR, so I couldn't tell you. However I'd have to think the thinner wall stuff will collapse easier when you try to heat it, so you should use the sand.
 
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Old 03-15-14, 12:12 PM
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Matt, the school I worked at last year had an 18/2 and coax pulled to each cam, but that is good to know.

OP, in theory, burying a regular cat5 cable will work as a bare minimum. So the thin wall and cable supplied will, in theory, work. But I think for better protection a thicker conduit and thicker casing on your cable will lessen the chance of you cable getting damaged. If the dude putting in your cameras has the cable ready to go, thats fine. But I would use the thicker pvc and ask the dude to use direct burial. And as matt said, the thin wall is more likely to kink. Try heating a larger area on your next practice piece. I've never heard of the sand method being used.
 
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Old 03-15-14, 01:58 PM
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Thanks for all helpful replies so far. Before I ask my next question I need to clarify that the camera(s) I intend on installing as described in my first post here are this specific ones 1.3 Megapixel CCD HD High Speed Dome Camera and not the ones shown via my original link I posted which was these: Search results - Security Cameras Manufacturer | Security Wholesaler - Veilux.net

I'm trying to find out in advance of actually having any of this equipment what is the type of cable(s) that will be connected (plugged in) directly between the camera(s) and the PoE 802.3af injector unit? Is it two cables per camera or just one? What is the outside diameter of these cables? Are the plugs on the end likely already factory attached? I'm trying to determine whether 3/4" inch inside diameter PVC is adequate size conduit to fish whatever cable it is from the camera to the injector unit.
Thanks
 
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Old 03-16-14, 02:46 AM
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Ooo.. Ok that camera's a whole different animal. While it is still an IP cam, it DOES NOT use 802.3af PoE. It has its own 24v adapter. So you have two choices.. You'll either need to use what's called "Hack PoE", which basically uses 'splitters' at each end to run power down the two unused pairs in the Cat5 (although I wouldn't recommend this considering the camera draws an amp and a half, and you'll have almost a 20% voltage drop over the 100'), or pull a separate 18-16ga power cable into the pipe when you pull the Cat5.

This one uses a lot more power than 802.3af PoE can provide on a single port thanks to the heater (and being in AK, you NEED the heater in order to keep the PTZ working). The climate-controlled bubblecams are basically the exception to the rule about IP cams only needing the single Cat5. Normal 802.3af PoE runs over an ordinary Cat5e cable. It sends up to 15W @ 44V up the same pairs as the data, up to 330'. The voltage drop is already calculated into the system. Unlike the 'Hack PoE', the device at the end of the run is designed to draw its power off the wires internally, rather than having to split it off at the end and run it to the device's power jack. 802.3af is also compatible with Gigabit (which uses all four pairs), while 'Hack PoE' is not.

But to address your other concern, there will be no issue using 3/4". Pre-terminated Cat5 will fit through it. You will have to put the end on the power cable yourself.
 

Last edited by JerseyMatt; 03-16-14 at 03:03 AM.
  #21  
Old 03-16-14, 12:17 PM
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JerseyMatt thanks for correcting me about the 802.3af PoE, and pointing out this camera has its own 24v adapter. I hadn't realized that and so had stated my assumption, wrongly, that indeed there would be a PoE injector involved.
I'm fairly certain the aforementioned Hack PoE method is not under consideration here. So there will be two of these cameras, and I do recall the guy who's supplying me the equipment saying each will need a power cable in addition to the Cat5. I've also discovered that actual distance of the run(s) will be 140' and not 100' as I posted initially. So it seems possibly the conduit will need to enclose two Cat5 cables plus two 18-16ga power cables? Will the additional 40' of distance likely also be an issue?
 
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Old 03-16-14, 12:48 PM
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No, Cat5 is good for up to 100 meters (330').

Considering the extra length I would just go with 16ga power cables. Low voltage DC is very susceptible to voltage drop over distance.

Running data parallel to DC power generally isn't an issue, since you don't get induction with DC.. However at this point with the new information (longer run, two power cables) I would go with Cat6e (the e is important) instead because it is shielded, it's got thicker conductors, and it's not really that much more expensive than the Cat5 at this point, compared to having to pull it again later on if you have issues.
 
  #23  
Old 03-16-14, 01:17 PM
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Okay thanks Matt I'll keep all that in mind. On Tuesday I'll be discussing this project again in more detail with the guy supplying the equipment, and will go from there.
 
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