Running a sub panel to shed

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  #1  
Old 03-19-14, 06:47 PM
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Running a sub panel to shed

I am trying to run a sub panel to my new shed....I want it to be able to run a table saw and have some lights and outlets for smaller hand tools....nothing should be running at the same time....Im not sure where to start.....I cant figure out how many amps are running to the house.


here is a picture of my panel and meter outside any help would be appreciated :
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  #2  
Old 03-19-14, 06:51 PM
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Welcome to the forums!

Is there a label on the inside cover of your panel? Is the picture of the breakers on the outside of the house and part of the meter enclosure?
 
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Old 03-19-14, 07:09 PM
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there is no lable on this panel....this panel is on the outside of the house next to the meter....there is another panel in the house....it's new....but i didnt check that one......i guess my main question is.....do i have enough amps running to the house to run a second panel?
 
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Old 03-19-14, 07:40 PM
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Likely yes.

It looks like you have a combo meter/breaker. It does not have a main breaker but is covered by the "6 disconnect" rule and I would want to guess it is 200 amp.

If you are willing to take off the panel cover to the breakers, and take a picture of the wires feeding it, we can make a guess on the amps.

Do you want to take it out of the outdoor panel or the indoor one?
 
  #5  
Old 03-19-14, 07:42 PM
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i can do that tomorrow......I would like to take it out of the outdoor one.....thanks for the help!!!
 
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Old 03-19-14, 07:48 PM
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The outdoor one looks like you don't have a space for a two pole. Are all the breakers in there being used?
 
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Old 03-19-14, 08:03 PM
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Well...the 20 amp is the garbage disposal....could I use that and the blank one above it? I could move the disposal to the inside panel right?
 
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Old 03-19-14, 08:05 PM
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I could move the disposal to the inside panel right?
Assuming there is room yes.
 
  #9  
Old 03-19-14, 08:10 PM
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some reason there is room at the bottom....but it is taped off......you can kind of see it in the pic....i'll try to take a better picture in the morning.
 
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Old 03-19-14, 08:15 PM
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We'll need a picture with the cover off. Sometimes panel covers may have more blanks then spaces in the panel because they are made for multiple models of panels, or the bus could be burnt, or maybe they just removed a breaker.
 
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Old 03-19-14, 08:15 PM
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You still might be limited by the 6 disconnect rule though. Relocating the disposal circuit might be the best option. We'll see the other picts.
 
  #12  
Old 03-20-14, 07:51 AM
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Ok..... here is a pic of the panel outside with the cover off:
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And this is a photo of the inside panel:

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I have a couple more questions now..... why is a double 80 amp breaker feeding a panel that has a double 100amp main breaker? Also in the attached photo you can see the wire coming feeding the main panel outside.... does this help determine how many amps are coming to the house? Also... do I need to move the disposal to the inside panel? Is there enough room (in terms of amps)? Can I run the sub panel to the workshop from the inside house panel?
 
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Old 03-20-14, 08:30 AM
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why is a double 80 amp breaker feeding a panel that has a double 100amp main breaker?
The 100 amp breaker is used only as a disconnect switch. The protection on the circuit is provided by the 80 amp breaker. Technically a subpanel in the same building does not require a disconnect switch but it is a good convenience in a situation like this.

Leaving the garbage disposal where it is and coming off the inside panel would be simplest. Is the table saw 240 volts? How many amps?
 
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Old 03-20-14, 10:54 AM
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I don't have one yet but I think I would rather 240 and I think I saw one that was 6 amps at that voltage.....how big of a sub panel do you think I would need out there? and can you tell how many amps are running to the house?
 
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Old 03-20-14, 11:00 AM
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actually its 13 amps and it says in can be dual voltage
 
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Old 03-20-14, 11:46 AM
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Your outdoor panel is fed with 3/0 copper. 200 amps for sure. The lower spaces in the cover are not usable. There is no bus in that location. The cover likely fits other panels.

Moving the disposal circuit, as mentioned, would be the best option. I would recommend running a 60 amp, 240volt feed out to your shed. That will give you plenty capacity for running the saw, plus a dust collector, lights, radio and a small fridge for "refreshments". You can pick up a 100 amp value pack panel with a main for about $55
 
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Old 03-20-14, 11:48 AM
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Edit: Tolyn types faster. If you go 60 amp use #6 not #8 and 1" conduit would be better. Grounding conductor in conduit can be #10.

At the shed I'd suggest either a 100 amp main breaker panel or a 100 amp main lug panel supplied by #8 on a 40 amp two pole breaker. You want at least a 12 space subpanel.

The main breaker subpanel has the advantage it can be bought as a kit at a cheap price considering it also includes breaker. Dis advantage is the #8 may be too small for the main breaker but you can pigtail the #8 to larger wires.

A main lug panels advantage is you can use a back fed breaker that fits the #8 so no pigtailing needed. Dis advantage may be higher cost and probably you will need to buy breakers separate. You will also need a hold down for the back fed breaker.

In addition either panel will need a ground br added. Both your EGC and GEC (ground rod) plus all the branch circuit ground will connect there. Your neutral bar will be isolated and only neutral wires go there.

You will need a four wire feed, either 8-3 (+ground) UF-b direct buries at 24 inches or more or four #8 individual conductors in " PVC conduit buried 18" or more.
 
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Old 03-20-14, 11:49 AM
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just so I understand correctly....when I run the 60amp to the 100 amp panel....the 60 amp would trip before I reached the 100amps that the panel is rated to? is that right?
 
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Old 03-20-14, 11:52 AM
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That is correct. The 100 amp is just a disconnect, same as the inside panel of your house.
 
  #20  
Old 03-20-14, 11:54 AM
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thanks guys....this is a great start....I'm new to electrical systems....and to forums for that matter....its really neat to be able to get this advice....15 years ago it would take 10 trips to the library to get the knowledge that you guys have given me in a few mins.....thanks again!
 
  #21  
Old 03-20-14, 11:56 AM
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Please note I have edited my post to reflect Tolyn's suggestion of 60 amps.
 
  #22  
Old 03-20-14, 11:57 AM
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one more question.....is it bad to have more than 200 amps worth of breakers in the outside box? is it just assumed that all the things wired to that box wont be running at the same time?
 
  #23  
Old 03-20-14, 12:00 PM
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is it just assumed that all the things wired to that box wont be running at the same time?
Yes that is the reason and it is normal.
 
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