feeders may be too short

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Old 04-05-14, 07:21 AM
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feeders may be too short

Considering replacing subpanel. There is 3 wire #8 thhn going to it but putting in a new panel, with different configuration of enclosure, I am thinking its possible the new feeders will be a bit to short.

Can I splice/extend the wires of the feeders?
 
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Old 04-05-14, 07:50 AM
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Can I splice/extend the wires of the feeders?
Sure. You'll just need to install a J-box to make the splices in.

There is 3 wire #8 thhn going to it...
Cable? If so, is it 8-3/G (2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground)?

Also, what size is the breaker that protects this feed?
 
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Old 04-05-14, 08:06 AM
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Cable? If so, is it 8-3/G (2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground)?

Also, what size is the breaker that protects this feed?


Its not cable. Its in rigid. You already knew that though otherwise I would have said it was 8/3 with ground. Its protected by a 40A breaker and 2x20A in the subpanel.

You bring up another concern. When am I able to splice in the panel?

For example, one circuit controls a few outlets and the other controls a few ceiling lights. Those devices are wirenutted in the subpanel and pigtails go to each breaker. The returns are also pigtailed the same way. Is that code compliant?
 
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Old 04-05-14, 08:12 AM
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Which THHN are you missing? You need 4 wires, hot, hot, neutral, ground. You may need to run one more in the conduit. "When can you do it"? As soon as the power is removed. Splicing within the subpanel is compliant.
 
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Old 04-05-14, 08:18 AM
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Which THHN are you missing? You need 4 wires, hot, hot, neutral, ground.
Seeing that I am not asking about something not working, which one do you think it is?

The conduit is the mechanical ground. Im not asking about a new installation here.

Splices can be made in the panel.
Nahkat suggested a junction box. I knew you can make splices in a panel but I thought with Nashkats response that is not the case with feeders??
 
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Old 04-05-14, 08:19 AM
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A double pole 20 is not a 40 amp breaker. It is a 20 amp breaker.

Splices can be made in the panel. I might just pull new #12's instead of splicing.
 
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Old 04-05-14, 08:21 AM
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A double pole 20 is not a 40 amp breaker. It is a 20 amp breaker.
Maybe I wasn't clear. The feeders are protected by a 40A breaker in the main panel. There are 2 20A breakers in the subpanel. Oh wait, I said that already....
 
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Old 04-05-14, 08:31 AM
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Its not cable. Its in rigid.
Thanks for the clarification.

You already knew that though otherwise I would have said it was 8/3 with ground.
You would have, but not everyone would have. I asked because some folks will describe an 8-3 cable as "3 wire #8 thhn."

Its protected by a 40A breaker and 2x20A in the subpanel.
The breaker in your main panel and the feeders are both sized for 40A. The breaker in this subpanel is limiting it to 20A. Is there a reason for that?

Also, it sounds like there are just 3 conductors in the conduit and the conduit provides the path to ground. If so, is it bonded at both ends? Also, since this is a subpanel, are the neutrals isolated in it?

You bring up another concern. When am I able to splice in the panel?

For example, one circuit controls a few outlets and the other controls a few ceiling lights. Those devices are wirenutted in the subpanel and pigtails go to each breaker. The returns are also pigtailed the same way. Is that code compliant?
Yes.
 
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Old 04-05-14, 08:42 AM
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Its protected by a 40A breaker and 2x20A in the subpanel.
The breaker in your main panel and the feeders are both sized for 40A. The breaker in this subpanel is limiting it to 20A. Is there a reason for that?
It is not a double pole breaker and their is no main in the subpanel. There are 2 separate 20amp branch circuits serving the structure (detached garage) which is wired with #12.

And since your asking, the conduit is bonded. The EGC bus is bonded to the enclosure which is connected to a ground rod. The neutral bus is not bonded to the enclosure.

And since we got on the topic of 3 wire vs. 4 wire.... I wonder how does grandfathering play into this? I think that 4 wire was a 2008 change correct?
 
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Old 04-05-14, 09:18 AM
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It is not a double pole breaker and their is no main in the subpanel. There are 2 separate 20amp branch circuits serving the structure (detached garage) which is wired with #12.
Since you're considering replacing the subpanel, I would consider getting one with a main breaker, so that you have a switch that will turn off the power to the buses. But you don't have to, so long as there are no more than 6 circuits fed from it.

And since your asking, the conduit is bonded. The EGC bus is bonded to the enclosure which is connected to a ground rod. The neutral bus is not bonded to the enclosure.
sounds good. AFAIK, if the rigid conduit is bonded to ground at each end then it serves as the required EGC between the two panels, even under current cods. 3 conductors in the conduit should be all you need. (Others may differ.)

And since we got on the topic of 3 wire vs. 4 wire.... I wonder how does grandfathering play into this? I think that 4 wire was a 2008 change correct?
Not sure which cycle, but I don't think it applies here. More specifically, I don't think the requirement is 4 wires. I think it is 4 conductors, and it sounds like you have that.
 
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Old 04-05-14, 01:12 PM
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I'm not sure about the others, but I don't volunteer my time to be berated by someone like you. Not all installations have continuous rigid, thus the grounding effect is not there. You don't need to come back at us with quippy remarks when it is you who is seeking advice.

You asked about splicing in a panel. I answered. It wasn't what you wanted, so you had to make a smart remark. Keep your comments civil, please. You may get better answers that way.
 
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Old 04-05-14, 01:59 PM
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I'm not sure about the others, but I don't volunteer my time to be berated by someone like you. Not all installations have continuous rigid, thus the grounding effect is not there. You don't need to come back at us with quippy remarks when it is you who is seeking advice.

You asked about splicing in a panel. I answered. It wasn't what you wanted, so you had to make a smart remark. Keep your comments civil, please. You may get better answers that way.
I regret that I let that go by when I replied earlier - not least because Chandler has had my back more times than I can count.

Pete, you've been a member here for a few months now. I assume you've long since read Electrical Forum Rules and Policies [PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING], but this might be a good time to read through it again - especially the last section.

In fact, anyone who hasn't read it, or hasn't read it in awhile, would probably benefit from reading it.

BTW, Pete, you might have thought that Chandler was teasing you with his question. He wasn't. If he ever does decide to tease you, I promise you'll know it. And regardless, you could have asked.
 
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