New Recessed Lights/Closet light/Dimmer install

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  #1  
Old 04-09-14, 07:51 AM
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New Recessed Lights/Closet light/Dimmer install

Hello all! I'm new to the Do it yourself forum, thought i'd give this site a shot and check out the community.

I bought a house that needed some work, and i've been taking care of repairs, and everything has been going well.

I took down my ceiling in the living room, there was popcorn texture from the 80s/late 70s or something. Since i have easy access to everything I thought i'd install recessed lights, with an associated master and slave dimmer, a ceiling fan and a cheap light in a closet with switch. The lights are phillips led, with phillips lightolier ballast, and have a very low load. The fan I currently don't have, but i'm going to put up a box and a cover plate.

1. Can I tap into existing wiring for all of that, or should i snake a line to the electric supply box, and have everything on one new circuit
2. I'd like to dim the light on the fan along with the recessed lights, but have the fan not be effected by the dimming.

Right now, due to probably bad wiring of previous owner, there are a couple sockets, basement lights, hallway light, outdoor entrance light, and a microwave all on the circuit i'd want to tap into.

using 12-2 NB wire

Thanks again!

Aaron
 
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Old 04-09-14, 08:28 AM
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he fan I currently don't have, but i'm going to put up a box and a cover plate.
Be sure it is fan rated.
1. Can I tap into existing wiring for all of that, or should i snake a line to the electric supply box, and have everything on one new circuit
Depends on existing load but since it is open I'd suggest a new 15 amp circuit.
2. I'd like to dim the light on the fan along with the recessed lights, but have the fan not be effected by the dimming.
You will need to run 3-cocutor cable (red, black, white +ground) to the fan. There are multiple options but running 3-conductor cable leaves open all options.
with an associated master and slave dimmer,
They may need a neutral at the switch. If you are on 2011 NEC you are required to have a neutral at the switch box.

Closets must have enclosed fixture and be at least 12 inches from the clothes or anything flammable. Fluorescent fixtures must be at least six inches.
 
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Old 04-09-14, 08:40 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply!

I was think that I should run a new line as well, I didn't consider the 2011 NEC for the dimmer. So 15 amp breaker for 12-2 NM B wire up to living room from basement. Is there anything else you could think that would be good to do while the ceiling is open? Doesn't even have to be electric related.
 
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Old 04-09-14, 09:32 AM
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Welcome, the 15 amp circuit only needs. #14 wire which will be easier to work with. Or you can use the #12 and up the breaker to 20 amps. I would definitely run a new circuit, especially with the load on the old circuit.
 
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Old 04-10-14, 11:15 AM
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Is there anything else you could think that would be good to do while the ceiling is open? Doesn't even have to be electric related.
If there is any finished living space above this room, I would install insulation to dampen sound transmission. Mineral wool batts are very effective.

Note: If you do this you will need to install recessed fixtures that are rated IC (Insulation Compatible.

Also, I like to install jamb-mounted switches to control closet lights. It would go just below the top hinge for the closet door. Some of us call these :refrigerator switches" - open the door, light on; close the door, light off.
 
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Old 04-10-14, 05:23 PM
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rated IC (Insulation Compatible.
IC = Insulation Contact.
 
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Old 04-11-14, 05:55 AM
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Update

Alright I was about to run wire to the electric supply box, but before I did I decided to write down everything on each circuit for a new circuit directory on the breaker/supply box (The last owner did a poor job). I found a 20 amp circuit that would be fine to tap into, and available junction box.

I don't have 3 conductor cable, but i have two 3 way switches for the dimmer master and companion, and the a box i'd like to pre wire for a fan.

Now my question is, Can 12-2 power 12-3, since I need 12-3 for 3 way switches and to run the ceiling fan/light (light dim with the recessed lights)? Do I need 2 small runs of 12-2 spliced to the 12-3?

I know that for the 3 way switches can be wired with 12-2, but i also know that method is not optimal (using a traveler) So any wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Old 04-11-14, 06:53 AM
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Do I need 2 small runs of 12-2 spliced to the 12-3?
I know that for the 3 way switches can be wired with 12-2,
You can not wire 3 way switches with 12-2. You need to use 12/3 or 2 runs of 12/2. I would recommend just getting some 12/3 rather then running double runs of 12/2, but that's me.
 
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Old 04-11-14, 06:57 AM
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120 volt power supply is always a 2-conductor cable.*
Can 12-2 power 12-3, since I need 12-3 for 3 way switches
One has nothing to do with the other.
I know that for the 3 way switches can be wired with 12-2
Incorrect. The two switches of a three way circuit must be connected by 3-conductor cable. Maybe an electronic switching method uses less wires but it should always be wired for standard practices. Below is one of the most common 3-way circuits. Please look carefully to better understand 3-way circuits.

Name:  q303266_295318_3_way_wiring_1_zpsc2644257.jpg
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*There ia an exception to 2-conductor cable for 120 volts but it doesn't apply here.
 
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Old 04-11-14, 07:07 AM
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Fair enough

( I'm pretty green ) How do I go from 12/2 to 12/3 ? I don't mind buying 12/3 . My Line/Feed/Power is 12/2, I have 12/2 wire. I would rather use 12/3, but I'm not sure how to go to from 12/2 to 12/3. I'm aware of a way to wire the switches with just the 12/2 wire if it's not possible to go from 12/2 to 12/3. If it is possible though I would love to go to 12/3.
 
  #11  
Old 04-11-14, 07:14 AM
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Ah

I was under the impression that in a pinch, you could wire one switch to the fixture 12-2 (recessed lights ) the other switch to fixture 12-2 and then a third line between the switches as a traveler. This would leave one conductor free, and could be marked with tape or white tape I could right on. The interwebs have deceived me!
 
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Old 04-11-14, 07:48 AM
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Thanks, for the diagram, if i would have bothered to google a diagram I would see that I was over complicating things hahhaha. Good news is I've run the wire properly and just need the 12-3 between the switches.........DUH
 
  #13  
Old 04-11-14, 08:03 AM
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Thanks Again!

Thanks again, I've surely avoided blowing myself up, or any future people who inhabit the residence.
 
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Old 04-11-14, 08:03 AM
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If you want to run the can lights with the fan light, and fan separately, you will need to run either a 12/3 from the switch box to the fan (recommended), or run a 12/2 switch leg from the cans to the fan box and a separate 12/2 from the switch box to the fan box to run just the fan.
 
  #15  
Old 04-11-14, 04:04 PM
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Your question of what else to do....

Consider in ceiling speakers. You can run speaker wire to a plate behind your tv for any future surround sound.
Cat5 and coax cables for the tv if you don't already have them behind the wall.
A receptacle and different audio/visual jacks higher up for a wall mount tv. Ex: an HDMI jack at 1' then ran up the wall to another HDMI jack at 5'. Then if you ever wall mount the tv you can plug your devices in without seeing wires riding up the wall.
 
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Old 04-15-14, 05:40 AM
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Update post wiring

Everything was seemingly working, accept i noticed when I turned off the recessed lights, that the fan/light switch indicator lights turned off. Now it may be nothing because as I said earlier I don't have a fan yet I'm just pre-wiring it. I also have yet to install the "Canopy module", so there's just basically to wires pulled through the ceiling junction box with electrical tape on the tips. The lights try to go through some. I made a quick diagram, it's pretty crappy but I'm at work where I should be working.
  • The "connector" boxes are 4 port push lock connectors.
  • The "canopy module" is the piece that comes with the Lutron maestro fan/light control
  • The Dimmer on the recessed lights is the Lutron Maestro

I'm hoping it's nothing to worry about, and that if I hook up the canopy device and a fan, the device will run it's activation process and all will be well in the world.
 
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Old 04-15-14, 05:52 AM
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Also Thanks!

...because of you guys I have recessed lights installed, insulation installed because they are IC rated for a little sound resistance (wouldn't have known to check for IC rating), coax ethernet,and hdmi ports wired near where the tv will be speaker wire ran through wall, and speaker ran for ceiling speakers, all extremely easy while my ceiling is open, thanks for all the ideas I wouldn't have thought of those things. I'm glad to have tackled while everything is so accessible.

OH! I forgot, I'm going to do a search, but I didn't add more outlets on the side of the room where tv will be located (it's not going in the place the builder probably intended for tv ) What code related items do i need to be concerned about when adding outlets?

I'm blinded by wanting to close my ceiling so my creativity has left me
 
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Old 04-15-14, 07:38 AM
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So long as you have the minimum receptacles required by code any other additional receptacles for specific purposes are your option. You may want to considered a recessed receptacle box with a low voltage section for AV and media jacks.
 
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Old 04-15-14, 04:11 PM
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Toss in some track lighting to highlight a shrine to us posters and how great we are.
 
  #20  
Old 04-18-14, 06:33 AM
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I'm going to start a new thread but......

I have run cable to 7 placeholders for speakers, for an asssumed 7.1 or 7.2 system. The cables pass behind my wall and will lead to a speaker connection plate. Right now, the only hole in the wall is where I plan to mount my tv, there is a 1 Gang electrical outlet and my speaker wires hanging out of the hole.

My thought is that behind the TV there should be the power, 1 Hdmi in, 1 coax in, 1 RCA in (the coax an rca for if I don't have receiver )

Below the tv closer to the ground (this hole doesn't exist yet) I thought there would be a panel with 2 panels for my speaker inputs, 1 hdmi out, 1 cable out, 1 RCA out, 1 cable in and a 2 Gang Electical outlet. This panel would connect to the panel behind the tv. I would like to have an in wall sub, but i don't want to put a placeholder for that i'll have to just wait for the sub.

Does this all sound correct or am I missing something?

Behind TV
______________________
|power
| | | == Hdmi in
| O Coax in
| | | O O O RCA in
|______________________

Below TV
_____________________________________
|
| Ceiling Speakers Power Pluges
| O O O O == Hdmi out | | | |
| O O O O O Coax out
| O O O O | | | |
| O O O (Sub) OOO RCA in
|___________________________________

I'm assuming i'll have a receiver
The "place holders" are 18 cu eletrical boxes i ran speaker wire through. Once I have speakers, i'll drill the whole for the speaker, remove the placeholder and run the prewired cable to the speaker. I don't want to miss anything I'll be so mad if i close up the ceiling and wall before running everything I should run.
 
  #21  
Old 04-18-14, 09:53 AM
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Don't put anything in boxes. Just use low voltage brackets and leave your cables free behind the wall, unless the NEC does not allow this.
Southwire 1-Gang Low Voltage Old Work Box-56917001 at The Home Depot
Two gang versions are also available.

Now this is just personal opinion here, I would personally over engineer this. Set your stuff up as needed with the devices you have/want.
I would have the speaker connections on a separate plate. One plate with component jacks (can also be use for composite). One plate with at least 2, maybe 3 HDMI ports as most tvs I have seen have 3 HDMI ports on them. And one plate with coax, and at least 2 data jacks (cable tv, xbox, hardwire connection for a laptop, etc.). Can never have too many data jacks.

Coax and data - 3-Port Wall Plate - White-5003-WH at The Home Depot
Legrand adorne Keystone Cat 5e RJ45 Connector - White-AC5ERJ45W1 at The Home Depot
CE TECH F-Connector - White (10-Pack)-5010-WH-10 at The Home Depot

HDMI - same plate
CE TECH HDMI Insert - White-5060-WH at The Home Depot

Or you can track down a 2 gang 6 port plate and put all in there.

Compenent - GE Audio and Video Component Plastic Wall Plate - White-87636 at The Home Depot
Remember the component can be used with composite (red white yellow) as well. Copper wire is copper wire.

For your speakers I would head to a home audio place and find something that appeals most to you.
 
  #22  
Old 04-18-14, 10:46 AM
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Thankfully...

....I will still have some time to figure things out once the ceiling is up, the only thing that had to be ran with the ceiling down for ease, was the coax cable from the old tv wall. I think i'm going to just split the coax, so that if someone moves in they have a choice of which wall they want to arrange their TV. It's just if they pick the "original" wall they will have to run wires around from the old location.
 
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