#14 ground wire on 30A circuit

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  #1  
Old 04-13-14, 03:48 PM
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#14 ground wire on 30A circuit

I noticed that the electricians that ran a new circuit for my 30A dryer used a #14 as the ground. (metal conduit and has 2 hot #10, a white #10 and #14 green which is connected to the outlet). It runs about 60' to the panel.

Im thinking this is wrong and I am concerned that this is a safety hazard?
Is this something I should be complaining about?

p.s.- the bonding strap on the dryer has been removed. And a 4 wire cord/outlet is being used.
 
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  #2  
Old 04-13-14, 04:15 PM
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The metal conduit also provides grounding. Pigtail the ground wire to both the box and the receptacle using two #10 pigtails if the electrician didn't.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 04-13-14 at 06:47 PM.
  #3  
Old 04-13-14, 04:28 PM
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So typical dryer outlets are self grounding too?

Should I be making a stink about this with the contractor?
 
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Old 04-13-14, 04:36 PM
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Should I be making a stink about this with the contractor?
........... A stink about what ?
 
  #5  
Old 04-13-14, 04:47 PM
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A stink that he ran #14 ground on a 30A circuit which I assume is a code violation.
 
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Old 04-13-14, 04:57 PM
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Is this what he installed?: http://www.idealindustries.com/media...um/30-3184.jpg[ATTACH=CONFIG]29938[/ATTACH]
 
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Old 04-13-14, 05:10 PM
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I think a #14 green was run from panel directly to receptacle.
 
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Old 04-13-14, 06:27 PM
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The ground jumper from the box is too small. It should be a #10.
 
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Old 04-13-14, 06:41 PM
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I agree with PJ it reads to me that the #14 is from the panel. I may have confused the issue by suggesting that a supplemental ground be added from the box to the receptacle so the primary ground is the conduit and the #14 from the panel just be bonded to the box. I am assuming a metal box. I wrote:
Pigtail the ground wire to both the box and the receptacle if the electrician didn't.
I am editing that to say use #10 to clarify.
 
  #10  
Old 04-14-14, 04:19 AM
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To clarify--#14 from panel to outlet. No pigtail to box.

My questions:

Is this a safety hazard?
Are dryer recepticals self grounding?
Can I fix this without having to pull a #10 from panel?
Should I be complaining to the contractor about this?
 
  #11  
Old 04-14-14, 06:56 AM
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My questions:

Is this a safety hazard?
Are dryer recepticals self grounding?
Can I fix this without having to pull a #10 from panel?
Should I be complaining to the contractor about this?
My opinion is the #14 is not needed IF there is a #10 pigtail from the grounded metal box to the receptacle. No, dryer receptacles are not typically self grounding. No need to pull a #10 from the panel now, but I would have had I been doing this. A safety hazard? Perhaps and perhaps not, but in my opinion it is a code violation. I'm not sure I'd be complaining to the contractor, but I'd definitely keep this incident in mind before I hired another contractor. I would probably just correct this situation myself, but it's your decision whether to complain or not.
 
  #12  
Old 04-14-14, 08:55 AM
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Thanks Joe. But I am still unclear... how do I fix this without 1. calling the contractor back and 2. without having to pull new wire or open up the breaker box?

Is pigtailing the #14 with a #10 connected to the box and a another #10 to the outlet code compliant?

Or is if even necessary to "correct" this?
 
  #13  
Old 04-14-14, 09:01 AM
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Is pigtailing the #14 with a #10 connected to the box and a another #10 to the outlet code compliant?
You are relying on the conduit for the ground and the #14 is an additional bonding wire.
I don't see any reason why that wouldn't be code compliant.
 
  #14  
Old 04-14-14, 09:43 AM
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Is there anything I have to assure is correct before pigtailing to the box?

Either was if a fault were to occur, that #14 would see that current correct? So it would still be undersized and burn up..... The #14 connected to bus would be quicker return to voltage than the conduit system no?

Im just trying to understand why this would be an acceptable fix to pigtail instead of just using the #14 as is... afterall, the conduit is still bonded without the pigtail. Seems kind of redundant.
 
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Old 04-14-14, 11:04 AM
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Receptacle is not self grounding therefore there must be an adequate size ground wire to the metal box. So long as the metal conduit is continuous it is your main ground. Even if you disconnected the green at the panel and pulled it out you would still have a safe code compliant ground so long as the conduit is continuous and a #10 pigtail is used.
Is there anything I have to assure is correct before pigtailing to the box?
Check that the conduit is continuous with no missing sections and is fastened to the panel and Jbox. Pull the cover from the breaker box and the Jbox and post a clear picture of how the conduit is terminated at both ends. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/li...-pictures.html
The #14 connected to bus would be quicker return to voltage than the conduit system no?
No reason that would be true.
Im just trying to understand why this would be an acceptable fix to pigtail instead of just using the #14 as is
The 14 is not adequate to ground the receptacle and the receptacle isn't self grounding so you need the #10 pigtail to ground the receptacle.
 
  #16  
Old 04-14-14, 11:29 AM
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Question remains.... do I include the #14 in the pigtail or just simply add one wire from box to outlet and disregard the #14?
 
  #17  
Old 04-14-14, 11:55 AM
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It doesn't matter but can't hurt.
 
  #18  
Old 04-14-14, 12:11 PM
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It doesn't matter but can't hurt.
Im guessing it matters to the NEC though. I have my children and wife doing laundry over here, I don't want them to get electrocuted and I don't want to damage my dryer or my electrical panel.
 
  #19  
Old 04-14-14, 12:39 PM
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Even if you had #10 between panel and dryer outlet it still would not be correct I don't think.

Doesn't that #10 (or your erroneous #14) have to be bonded/jumpered to the metal box as well? Maybe a pro can chime in on that aspect..... that might negate the use of that #14 all together.

im all ears since I am buying a new dryer this week and plan on installing it myself.
 
  #20  
Old 04-14-14, 12:55 PM
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Yes, the ground wire is normally connected to the box and the receptacle if present.
 
  #21  
Old 04-14-14, 03:08 PM
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My opinion is the #14 is not needed IF there is a #10 pigtail from the grounded metal box to the receptacle.
So what do I do with the bare #14 then that would be connected to the busbar in the panel? Leave it tucked in the back of the box?

Wifey is asking to do the laundry and I am not sure what to tell her!!
 
  #22  
Old 04-14-14, 03:17 PM
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Just leave it connected in the panel and let your wife do the laundry. You are way over thinking this.
 
  #23  
Old 04-14-14, 05:52 PM
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If the pigtail is only in the box with the receptacle just remove it from the ground screw and add the #10 between the box and the receptacle.
 
  #24  
Old 04-15-14, 04:33 AM
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I wasn't overthinking this, I just wanted to assure I have a safe installation for my family.
 

Last edited by ardmi; 04-15-14 at 05:08 AM.
  #25  
Old 04-15-14, 08:28 AM
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The NEC permits a "combination" of Equipment Grounding Conductors , and your "combination" is the metallic surface of the EMT and a ( bare) #14 copper wire .

Fasten a terminal "lug" to the metallic surface of the outlet-box and use the lug as a terminal connection for the #14 wire, and a #10 "Jumper" wire that connects the Grounding terminal of the receptacle to the metallic surface of the box and the #14 Grounding Conductor.
 
  #26  
Old 04-15-14, 09:21 AM
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So what do I do with the bare #14 then that would be connected to the busbar in the panel? Leave it tucked in the back of the box?
It really isn't needed, I'd just abandon it in the box, but you must use a #10 jumper from the box to the receptacle Grd terminal.
 
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