I know labor cost is a regional thing. But my husband and I are trying to guage if we should attempt a kitchen rewire diy or contract out.

Generally (use your area as a reference of course) how much can we expect to spend on a basic kitchen rewire? Or just rewire per circuit in general?

 

What is it about your current wiring that you want to change? There are a number of factors that have to be considered. How many circuits are there? Do you want to add outlets? When was the house built? Is it BX or Romex? Electrical work does not come cheap. Insurance should be considered too.

 

A kitchen rewire/electrical remodel can run from $1K to over 20K depending on the scope of work. Check in your area if you can DIY wiring. Some places you can not and I feel like DE is one of them.

 

If you guys are concerned about that stuff... perhaps those seeking advice here should post their building permits in their signatures before receiving any DIY tips!.

As far as the scope of the rewire. its all 60 year old wiring in conduit. There are 3circuits feeding to this area that would be used as lighting and 2 appliance circuits. Each box from the panel to the homerun is overfilled and likely will need replacing. All of the lighting at this point shares the appliance circuits.

There is no expansion or remodel involved here....

again I understand its very hard to ask for ballpark figures but say a service call in my area cost about 100 dolllars.... this job would take 2 guys at least 1 day perhaps 2 or more. Is it safe to figure it out for time and material in this case?

I once got a few estimates for another reason that included adding circuits in my house, for example a laundry circuit.... the going rate was about 300 dollar to run exposed emt on my basement ceiling to a washing machine about 50' away. I couldn't see that taking much more than 2 hours for an experienced guy or two.

 

Getting a few estimates would be the only way to know for sure. Just because something looks easy and quick, doesn't mean it is.

 

And was that project to be conduit/wire because your area requires all wiring in conduit? If all conduit is required, your kitchen rewire will not be cheap. There is much information needed for even a local contractor to throw a ballpark price including local code requirements and amendments.

$300 sounds like a pretty competitive bid for 50 feet of conduit, wire, device box & device, circuit breaker, etc; basically an easy install. My thoughts on that are based on labor around $90/Hr, drive time and 1 man on the job with a service truck in the driveway.

A kitchen rewire when no remodeling is being done will take significantly longer for all the required circuits to reach the existing receptacle boxes, light switches and lights all inside existing walls and ceilings that are not to be opened.

 

While it is a free country, you are still required to follow local rules/laws regarding any electrical work that is done. Our first concern of any advice is that any work is done properly and safely. It your responsibility to do it legally. I was only bringing it to your attention so that you do your due diligence in what is required in your area. If you want to pay a fine for not pulling a permit, and possibility have your home owners insurance revoked, that is your option.

2 guys x 2 days to do the work in the kitchen around here would be around $1600 + any material required.

1 guy x 2 hrs + material for the laundry circuit, $300 does not sound out of line.

 

The existing emt and rigid conduit would be used. Some boxes will need to be replaced with larger ones however, so there will be drywall work.
As far as permit pulling. In my area permits wouldn't be needed for existing work or service. We are not expanding the system either. Since this isn't a kitchen remodel and I want this done to fix code violations and some wiring issues then I am assume that is not needed.... of course Im not sure of the process really.

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Seriously, money is a real concern here. Anything approaching over a grand will not be feasible. So in that case is it better to piece meal repairs and bringing stuff up to code, go into debt or try to tackle this diy?

 

DIY would always be the less expensive way to do the job. Material cost is only about 1/3 the cost of a job. The DIY route will all depend on what you are able, and comfortable to do. I personally do not suggest going into debt if it can be avoided.

What are the code violations that you have? You mentioned you have two small appliance circuits so you should be OK there. Are you tripping circuits?

There is a really good DIY forum around here someplace and can be of great help on all aspects of DIY repair.

 

If additional circuits are required, most likely the existing conduit will not handle all the additional wires. Just something to consider.

 

If anything close to a grand is too much & you're not concerned w/ permits, do it yourself.

 

No tripping breakers. And no need to expand.

However, there is many things that need repair. Overfilled junctions. Stuffed outlet box with gfcis that barely fit. Short wires at outlet boxes. The lights share the small appliance circuits. I believe I have lights on one circuit using the returns on another circuit (mismatched neutrals) Si theres miswiring there.

Dishwasher,Stove, Range Hood are all already on dedicated circuits.

So the repair stuff entails taking entire boxes apart and in some cases replacing with larger boxes. At that point, with 60 year old wire, I assume it best to replace the wire as well?

And if I went with the repair route, or have someone over to give me an estimate on rewire, I don't think its possible to have them open up and diagnosis all the stuff that needs repair vs. just giving me an estimate for the entire thing.

Either way, 1000 dollars will be very hard on my family. Anything more would entail more debt.

 

Without having seen the kitchen and from your description of existing problems with boxes and separating circuits, my best guess is that maybe 2 guys can do this job in a week, but that includes no finished surface patching/repair/painting. This may sound like an easy job, but when you start dealing with older conduits and box replacements, there will be some problems. Some conduits may not even be suitable to be reused.

From your description I don't think I'd classify this as existing work, it's just too extensive. My opinion is that a permit/inspection will be required. Just for reference, in my area, the code states that a permit is required "when electrical work is performed".

 

Joe
when you say old conduit sometimes cant be reused, how so?

When someone "rewires" is it out of the ordinary to use the same boxes and conduits (even if 60+ years old)?

Keep in mind when I say rewire, there is no expansion of the system....

 

Keep in mind you may not know where each end of a specific conduit is or where it runs to. Also keep in mind that sometimes older wiring cannot be removed from a conduit. That would mean replacing the conduit, if you know where the other end is or should be. There is also a possibility the existing conduits may not be big enough for all the circuits required by today's code.

But.....you'll have to bring the entire kitchen up to today's code which undoubtedly will mean more circuits.

 

Not necessarily, no. If the conductors have rubber or plastic insulation that is still flexible they may be fine to keep in service.

It doesn't sound like you need to rewire much, if anything. Basically, it sounds like you need to clean up and correct some questionable work.

I recently did the wiring for a kitchen remodel for a couple of friends. It was significantly more work than you've outlined - new breakers, a new circuit, relocating everything but one switch box and the overhead light, etc. I used one helper for a few hours. $3,500.

 

Bottom line, regardless of location and labor costs, I am probably nuts thinking this can get done for less than a grand?

I was thinking of having someone out to pull wires to the homeruns, like on a service call, but I am guessing that too needs two guys. A service call in our area runs about 100-125 an hour for 1 guy.


How so?

 

It won't budge when you pull on it or the wire breaks off when you attempt to pull it. 60 year old wire sometimes just sticks inside the conduit. There could even be a box somewhere between points "A" and "B" that you don't know about or cannot find. Conduits are not always run in a manner in which you think would be the most logical. You obviously have very little experience or you would know some of these things.

 

No need to guess. Almost every wire pull requires at least one worker to feed and one to pull.

Why do you need to pull new conductors?

 

Some of the wires in boxes are too short and I assumed it would be best to pull all new on those same runs that are too short. Otherwise they will be pulling wire into conduit that is already filled.

Most of these conduit runs are over head in my basement. The first homerun is from basement to counter height. Another homerun is basement to switch box height. Then the outlets are fed from the ceiling box above rather than daisy chained. Howerver, there is blown in insulation in my attic so that will become an issue.

Yeah, that's why I ask for advice at the do it yerself forum.

 

What typically costs more.. a new 100A service or a kitchen rewire?

 

With just some basic information I could bid a 100 amp service over the telephone; the minimum and maximum prices aren't really that far apart on a typical service and labor would be something less than a full day for one man and labor is the biggest cost. There is nothing typical about a kitchen rewire. I don't think I'd bid it even after looking at it because I already know it's all in older conduit, but no one has any idea of the conduit runs. The kitchen rewire would definitely cost more by quite a lot.

 

I agree that the service would be cheaper than a kitchen. The service is pretty straight forward. The kitchen can be all over the mapp with options.

 

Surprised to hear you say that... aren't all rewires in older conduit? Seems much more labor intensive to be running new conduit than attempting to use the old where possible.

As mentioned, the outlets (4 total) in the room are wired from the ceiling boxes in the room.... I read another thread here where they say that's not a good idea.

Would any electrician use the same method when rewiring? Esp. if attempting to use the same conduit.... bad idea?

Also code states I would have to get the lighting off the small appliance circuit, is that correct?

 

Actually, most residential rewire jobs don't involve conduit at all.

So right away there's a change from the existing old conduit. New conduit will be required if the receptacles are not to be rewired from the existing ceiling boxes, assuming conduit is required in your area.

Some may, but most probably wouldn't use just the existing conduits because of box fill issues when adding the code required number of circuits.

Yes, that's another circuit that will be required. Those existing conduits will get full quickly IF they go where the circuits are needed.

 

We just did a small kitchen rewire where they pulled off the old drywall, removed the insulation, and the panel was just below the kitchen. We pretty much redid all the wiring, removing the Greenfield, or reusing it as a raceway to sleeve the NM-b. Cost was about $1800 with a few extras.

If your walls are finished I could see the cost going up quite quickly.