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Rewire single room to attic junction boxes (hanging new drywall)

Rewire single room to attic junction boxes (hanging new drywall)

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  #1  
Old 06-20-14, 10:00 PM
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Rewire single room to attic junction boxes (hanging new drywall)

Have a 1950's single story home with 2 wire only (no grounds). In the den which doubles as the master, there is wood paneling that I am planning to replace with drywall.

Prior to doing so, I have been thinking that it would be a good time to run some new wires (3 wire with grounds), so that in the future it would make a rewire that much easier. One of the walls is against the kitchen, so I could also get easy access to half of those.

Could I run new wire into the walls, into a new junction box for each in the attic, and then connect from there into the existing wiring run in the attic?

Then, when rewire job comes around, the work for that room (and half the kitchen) would be just up in the attic. As other rooms are renovated, could do similar.

Thoughts, advise? Any code issues? Doing the wiring is no problem for me, but I dont know any of the codes. I have just read before that junction boxes have to be 'accessible' (which they would be from the attic).
 
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  #2  
Old 06-20-14, 10:52 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

You're going to be opening the walls in the master bedroom which is a good time to be making wiring upgrades. You can run new wiring in that room but it might make more sense to run it directly to the panel. Create a new circuit for that room. Put all the receptacles on their own circuit and pull an additional line to the attic to pick up ceiling lights in those rooms.

I'm not sure if you're also planning on doing any kitchen wiring but that wiring needs to be on it's own dedicated circuits.
 
  #3  
Old 06-21-14, 06:55 AM
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Could I run new wire into the walls, into a new junction box for each in the attic, and then connect from there into the existing wiring run in the attic?
By code you cannot extend ungrounded circuits and that is what you would be doing by feeding the new wiring with the existing ungrounded wiring.
 
  #4  
Old 06-21-14, 07:33 AM
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If you are going to be renovating an existing room the first big question is are you doing it on the books; meaning with a permit from the town of which will require an inspection. If so you will need to go according to NEC code PLUS any codes dictated by the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction-Your town code department). You can not guess and then start running wires; I know some will agree with me here that we can only guide you as to what the NEC dictates but what additional requirements your city/town code's dept will require there is no way for us to even know that (once again we can assume what they may require).

If you are taking existing wiring in the bedroom and extending it you do need to know what else is on that circuit to be sure you are not overloading it (too many receptacles and lights). Secondly since you are adding wires to that circuit more than likely have to now use a combination AFCI breaker for that existing circuit now. Those are far more expensive. How old is your panel; is it a fuse box or a breaker panel. If a breaker panel how old is it and will you be able to purchase AFCI breakers for it.

Also any wiring for the kitchen MUST be on a separate circuit called a small appliance circuit and must be 20amp rated with AWG 12 wire and CAN NOT go to another room like the den master bedroom but can go to the dining room.

Because you are renovating you will need to find out from your code's department at what point of a renovation percentage does now require to meet new codes on the NEC. 2011 in some areas are now replaced by the 2014 edition (best and safest to assume any renovation will require meeting new code). Don't guess, it could end up costing you much more in the end than if you just find out what you need to do. In this city where I live you need to submit electrical drawing layouts for any new wiring. I know, I have had to do them for some customers already.

As mentioned above if you are connecting a 3 wire cable (hot, neutral and ground) to an existing wire you must be sure that existing wire is grounded at some point or the new ground wire will serve no purpose (do not connect the neutral to the ground to provide a false ground; that won't fly and is dangerous - usually done as a lazy shortcut) If you are connecting to an existing circuit that circuit may now be required to have GFCI protection if no ground wire is present (Marking "GFCI Protected-No Equipment Ground") in order to meet code. If you end up running a separate circuit for your bedroom lights that circuit also must have AFCI protection.

On breaker costs; normal breaker for 15amp rating is about $5-$8, an AFCI breaker 15amp rated is about $42-$52 depending on manufacturer. Watch your costs; this may force you to upgrade your panel.

If I missed something here let me know please.
 
  #5  
Old 06-21-14, 01:09 PM
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As mentioned above if you are connecting a 3 wire cable (hot, neutral and ground)
That is a two wire cable..... not three wire. Its two wire plus ground.
 
  #6  
Old 06-21-14, 03:53 PM
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Thanks for replies.

Replacing wall board requires a permit? That is really the pimary intent of the 'renovation'. It just seems that since the wall is opened, it would be a good time to access the wiring.

The breaker panel is old, and its a stab-lok that the inspector said should be replaced since they have found to be faulty. Nevertheless, I would like to consider that a separate project.

I would not be adding any circuits, or adding any outlets. So Im not sure if 'extending' is correct term. Merely replacing existing wiring within the wall. Except not taking it all the way back to the panel. So, just replacing the section of wiring in the wall with new wiring. And adding a j-box in the attic, so dont have to run the new wire any further. Not sure if that was clear..

I realize the ground wire would serve no purpose, but again, its just there in the case of a future re-wire.
 
  #7  
Old 06-21-14, 05:30 PM
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I think your plan is reasonable especially given the walls are going to be open. The caveat will be what other upgrades may be needed with the open access. A call to your building official might be in order.
 
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Old 06-21-14, 06:00 PM
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Merely replacing existing wiring within the wall. Except not taking it all the way back to the panel. So, just replacing the section of wiring in the wall with new wiring
But you are putting in new wire with a ground and have no way to ground it. You could run a single #14 ground wire from the panel to the Jbox and probably be within code.
 
  #9  
Old 06-21-14, 06:35 PM
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I'm not even sure the panel is grounded. It doesnt seem so to me.. and why would they have grounded it in 1956 when there was no grounds in the house.

Maybe running the wire all the way back to the panel (replacing the whole wire for that part) would keep me in code nevertheless. Guess calling building folks might yield the best answer. I do hate how the current wiring in the attic was laid all over the place across the top of the boards.

I could always do the panel and rewire this room at the same time. But being recently purchased home, then i have to live with the wood paneling until I save more for the new panel.
 
  #10  
Old 06-21-14, 07:13 PM
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I'm not even sure the panel is grounded. It doesnt seem so to me.. and why would they have grounded it in 1956 when there was no grounds in the house.
You are confusing EGC With GEC. Yes your panel should be grounded. That was required even earlier than the 50's but that is the GEC to a water pipe or ground rod. The GEC is for atmospheric events. We are talking EGC which provides a low resistance path back to the panel for faults. The EGC would work even if the panel didn't have a GEC. The EGC is there to trip the breaker if a metal part of a device becomes energized by the hot.

EGC: Equipment Grounding Conductor
GEC: Grounding Electrode Conductor
 
  #11  
Old 06-21-14, 07:18 PM
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I'm not even sure the panel is grounded. It doesnt seem so to me.. and why would they have grounded it in 1956 when there was no grounds in the house.
The panel and neutral conductor was required to be grounded even in 1956 although it is entirely possible that it wasn't. Inspections, if there were any, were pretty lax in most places in 1956.

If you remove the old ungrounded cable back to the attic and then install new 2 wire plus ground cable and connect to the existing ungrounded cable, you are extending an ungrounded circuit. You can do it, but it would be a code violation.
 
  #12  
Old 06-21-14, 09:19 PM
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If you had BX cable with a bond strip it is a grounding means. Look for a thin conductor possibly back wrapped in the spirals at the connectors.
 
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