MidWest box for Jacuzzi brand spa/hot tub

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Old 07-05-14, 04:18 PM
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MidWest box for Jacuzzi brand spa/hot tub

Hello,

I'm pretty sure some kind of AC disconnect goes in the space in the photo. It should be about 3 1/8" x 2 1/5". The spa is Jacuzzi brand. I posted a couple of pics.

Does anyone knows exactly which disconnect this box needs?

Thank you
 
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  #2  
Old 07-05-14, 04:39 PM
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It may be easier to install a new pullout disconnect vs finding the part you need. Also the NM cable on the left is not kosher. It cannot be used outside.
 
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Old 07-05-14, 05:54 PM
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NM cable, do you mean the red one on the extreme left? This was here when I move in. The SPA is at least 7 years old, maybe more. You are saying this is not properly wired for outside.

I found the replacement: Midwest U065F1 Fusible Disconnect; 240 Volt, 60 Amp, 10 Kilo-Amp, 1 Phase (Midwest U065F1 Fusible Disconnect; 240 Volt, 60 Amp, 10 Kilo-Amp, 1 Phase - Crescent Electric Supply Company)

Should I replace it with something like a 60 Amp GFI Spa Panel (GE 60 Amp GFI Spa Panel-UG412RMW260P at The Home Depot

I don't guess that would be to difficult as all the wires are pulled. I just have to make sure the box fits.
 
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Old 07-05-14, 06:50 PM
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The white cable on the bottom left is not correct for outside usage.
 
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Old 07-05-14, 06:55 PM
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do you mean the red one on the extreme left
Not wire cable. The cable the red wire in is not for outdoor use even in conduit. If the breaker supplying the disconnect is the correct size for the cable used you do not need a fused disconnect. An non-fused 60 amp disconnect is all you need. Do you already have a spa panel? If so you do not need to replace it. Example: GE 60-Amp 240-Volt Non-Fuse Metallic AC Disconnect-TFN60RCP at The Home Depot
 
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Old 07-05-14, 07:08 PM
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What is in place

The Midwest U065F1 Fusible Disconnect; 240 Volt, 60 Amp, 10 Kilo-Amp, 1 Phase, in the photo is what's in place.

I have no idea who originally wired the spa, but apparently it worked for years.

I just want to do it right, and get it over with. The photo is what's in place right now. That is how it is wired at present.

The question is, if it needs to be replaced, what with, and if the red wire is not accurate, how to correct it, the same for the white wire?

I really appreciate your help, thank you!
 
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Old 07-05-14, 07:30 PM
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It is not the red wire as I said in the previous post. It is the white cable. Where does that cable come from? If it came directly into the back of the box from inside the house it wouldn't need to be changed but it seems to be in conduit running on the outside of the house. That is wrong.

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Old 07-05-14, 07:37 PM
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You are right

It does go to the spa.

I think you are saying it is wired incorrectly?

Someone used that cable straight from the spa to the box. When you say replaced, do you mean I need to fish different wire to the spa?
 
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Old 07-05-14, 07:45 PM
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You need Sealtite conduit containing one white, two black (or one each red and black) #6 and one #10 green. You can get premade whips at the BigBox.

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Old 07-05-14, 09:01 PM
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Okay. Do I use a disconnect or gcfi?
 
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Old 07-05-14, 09:04 PM
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Do I use a disconnect or gcfi?
They are two different things with different purposes. The disconnect is to turn off power to the SPA panel which should contain the GFCI protection. You do have a SPA panel don't you?
 
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Old 07-05-14, 09:08 PM
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If you mean the panel on the actual spa (the one in the picture), yes.
 
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Old 07-05-14, 09:12 PM
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Then that is where your GFCI protection is. What size breaker in your main panel is feeding the disconnect? Can you tell what size wires are feeding the disconnect?
 
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Old 07-05-14, 09:23 PM
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The wire you see going to the box comes directly from the spa. The control panel (on and off switch) is on the spa, but I can not see that without going beneath the spa (if I have to rewire, I know I will have to get beneath the spa).

The wire is really thick. It is the same guage as the white wire that protrudes from a 60 amp GFCI breaker.
 
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Old 07-05-14, 10:07 PM
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No, I"m asking about the breaker in your house breaker panel that supplies power to the disconnect.
 
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Old 07-05-14, 10:56 PM
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The Jacuzzi shares 2 50 amp 240V breakers with the A/C.
 
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Old 07-05-14, 11:25 PM
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The Jacuzzi shares 2 50 amp 240V breakers with the A/C
That is wrong. You are going to have to run a new service for either the spa or the A/C from the main panel. What is the full load amps of the A/C?
 
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Old 07-05-14, 11:43 PM
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Here are photos

Here are photos of the breakers and A/C info.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 12:26 AM
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He has a quad style 50A breaker. You need to install a GFCI disconnect at the spa, and get rid of the NM cable in the conduit.

Something like this: Square D #QOE250GFINM QO60A Enclosure SpaPack - Faucet Trim Kits - Amazon.com

Edit: Why did the link pop up as "Robot Check"?
 
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Old 07-06-14, 07:33 AM
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You have a quad breaker so the Spa is not connected to the A/C breaker as you first wrote. I suggest you get an electrician that is familiar with Spas to fix your problem. With Spas the life safety factor is critical and needs to be done by some one knowledgeable.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 09:09 AM
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The links I used were for Home depot and an electric supply store. You spyware/adware protection must be very sensitive.

What is wrong with the NM cable in the conduit or is it the conduit itself?
 
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Old 07-06-14, 09:13 AM
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I am beginning to see that. I was hoping it was just a matter of replacing the disconnect, but... One last thing, from the info I provided, what should I expect an electrician to propose?
 
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Old 07-06-14, 09:16 AM
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NM cable is not rated for outdoor use. NM cable has a bare ground. Ground to Spa must be insulated.

Are you sure the Spa even works?
 
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Old 07-06-14, 09:44 AM
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Got it. The people that owned the house before me said it worked at one time, they got an estimate of $500 to fix it, and decided not to.

When I looked in the box (where the disconnect was) it was just like the picture, so it has never had power, since I've lived here.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 10:28 AM
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You could spend a lot of effort and time wiring it correctly and still not have a working Spa. I'd jerry-rig power to it just to see if it works but I'm NOT recommending you do that. You just aren't at that skill level. Best I can suggest is get the Spa evaluated by a Spa repair company. See if it is worth fixing.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 10:40 AM
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I did that, they need power to figure out what, if anything, is wrong, but they did say the spa was worth fixing unless the motor was burned out or something. I was thinking of just replacing the disconnect to see if it works. It's been there wired like that for years, and it did work at some point. Do you think that could do more harm than good?
 
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Old 07-06-14, 11:54 AM
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Yes....you could change just the service disconnect. They are inexpensive and you could just replace it in order to test the spa.

It is our job to point out things that are incorrect and how to make improvements.

The white cable they used outside is not water and sunlight resistant and with age starts cracking and falling apart. You can change the line from the disconnect to the spa with a pre-made flex whip like shown above.

A GFI spa panel was probably not required by code when your unit was installed. If it turns out the Jacuzzi is ok then I would highly recommend upgrading your disconnect as a GFI is a life safety issue item
 
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Old 07-06-14, 12:29 PM
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Re a disconnect: From a previous post: Example: GE 60-Amp 240-Volt Non-Fuse Metallic AC Disconnect-TFN60RCP at The Home Depot For testing the NM-b is okay but must be replaced if the spa is to be used.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 02:05 PM
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Are you saying I should change the disconnect to the GE the link points to for testing, but if the spa going to be used, I need to replace the existing wire with sealtite conduit or something similar with wires you recommended? I was thinking: AFC Cable Systems 1/2 in. x 25 ft. Non-Metallic Liquidtight Conduit-6002-22-00 at The Home Depot

Southwire 6 Stranded THHN White (By-the-Foot)-20494199 at The Home Depot (red and black as well).

Southwire 10 Stranded THHN Green (By-the-Foot)-22977399 at The Home Depot

You also recommend, if the SPA actually does work using the disconnect, to replace the disconnect with GFI?

If so, would this be acceptable GE 60 Amp GFI Spa Panel-UG412RMW260P at The Home Depot ?

I posted the photos so you could see the existing conduit (second photo shows conduit along wall painted).
 
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Old 07-06-14, 03:07 PM
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Does your current Spa panel have a GFCI? For testing purposes any cheap non-fused 60 amp disconnect is okay. Why spend $70 on a disconnect if the Spa may turn out to be a dud. If you have a Spa panel with GFCI of course that is moot. Do you have a GFCI at the Spa?

Just a note: The alleged Spa experts you had out should have been able to rig temporary power for testing with out a disconnect so you might want to look for someone else to check it.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 03:11 PM
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The panel in the photo is the only panel (says Jacuzzi on it) on the spa. The disconnect (the midwest box) is about 10 feet from the spa, so I feel pretty safe saying there is no GFCI at the spa.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 03:13 PM
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In that case then you will eventually need the GFCI disconnect in your previous post. Looking at the picture of the old disconnect I don't see a ground wire. Is there one.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 03:29 PM
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here is a cropped shot of the ground.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 03:35 PM
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The bare ground is incorrect. It needs to be insulated.

You will not fit 3 or 4 #6 in a 1/2" conduit.
 
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Old 07-06-14, 03:51 PM
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Are the #6 bigger than the wire already there (they look about that size)? I was thinking of using the existing wire to fish through the 3 #6's and 1 #10? I have to try before I go digging up the existing conduit, which looks to be water proof).

If it doesn't work, then onto plan y...
 
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Old 07-06-14, 04:44 PM
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" PVC conduit is only rated for two #6 so no way if it is ".
conduit, which looks to be water proof
No conduit is considered water tight.All will fill with water eventually.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 07-06-14 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 07-06-14, 09:35 PM
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I appreciate all of you help/advice. I'll get it done right or get rid of the Spa.

I'll let you know what happens.
 
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Old 07-07-14, 08:17 AM
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The easiest thing to do is to replace the Midwest disconnect box with a spa panel that comes with the 50A GFCI breaker, they are available at big box stores and satisfy both disconnect and GFCI protection requirements. Then, install the proper wiring to the spa.

Midwest Electric Products 50 Amp 240-Volt 240-Watt Non-Fuse Metallic Spa Panel Disconnect with GFI-UG412RMW250P at The Home Depot
 
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