Outdoor Kitchen Wiring Questions - Newbie

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  #1  
Old 07-15-14, 01:14 PM
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Outdoor Kitchen Wiring Questions - Newbie

Hi all - Newbie here - had this all typed out before and site refreshed or something and wiped it out. I'll try to be brief ... trying to get "safe" power to outdoor kitchen -- nothing elaborate --- L shaped with mini- frig and grill light - as well as a couple of outlets. Really don't want to run from the box ... electrician came out an quoted me $750 to tap into MBR outlet with gfci on exterior wall and then run wiring into island and do the outlets/switches (switch for frig on/off). The MBR lights run off 15 amp circuit with TV, laptop, ceiling fan, etc - not much else except plugs. I question if the 15 amp would support the minifrig during startup surge.

Pre-existing patio. Thought I could cover any runs with conduit etc. I believe I can wire the outlets and switches but want to figure the least inexpensive way to get the wire to the island.

I have little electrical experience (so talk to me like a 3 yr old )) -- Can I just run a heavy duty extension from my existing gfci under the patio and wire to the outlets??

What would you all do ?? Any help appreciated!! These pics are not update to current status -- island is connected with complete bar countertop. Grill will be in shorter L. Want power to come in at bottom of module closest to wall.

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Thanks!!!
 
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Old 07-15-14, 03:11 PM
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Can I just run a heavy duty extension from my existing gfci under the patio and wire to the outlets?
No. Extension cords or for temporary use only not for permanent wiring..
tap into MBR outlet
What is an MBR outlet? Do you mean a GFCI receptacle?

You really need to run at least a 20 amp circuit from the breaker box or maybe a multiwire circuit from the breaker box. The first would use 12-2 UF-b buried 24 inches and provide one 20 amp circuit. The second would use 12-3 UF-b buried 24" and provide two 20 amp circuits. Conduit with individual THWN wires buried 18" could be used instead of UF cable. Another option is a single 20 amp GFCI protected feed cable or conduit buried 12".
 
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Old 07-15-14, 08:15 PM
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electrician came out an quoted me $750 to tap into MBR outlet with gfci on exterior wall and then run wiring into island and do the outlets/switches (switch for frig on/off).
If MBR means master bathroom, that would be a code violation. You need at the very least one new 20 amp circuit out there, two would be better.
 
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Old 07-16-14, 07:53 AM
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MBR = master bedroom. Electrician wanted to tap into it (15 amp) and have a GFCI plug in on exterior wall.

Thanks Ray!
 
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Old 07-16-14, 08:41 AM
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Electrician wanted to tap into it (15 amp)
Not a very astute electrician. Circuit is too small even with no loads of which it probably has several and that is disregarding code. This can be a DIY project if you want to do it. If you do for starters we need to know the location and distance of your breaker box relative to the island. Is your breaker box inside or outside? Are there open spaces?
 
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Old 07-16-14, 01:34 PM
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Ray - Thanks! In the interest of getting this thing mostly completed ... perhaps I can wire the outlets and switches I want on the island and then run the power as another DIY in the near future ??
To answer your questions : elec box is inside my laundry room which is a direct walk (across ceiling of about 40' to the island -- with exit being over the patio. I don't know where wire would have to enter ground at but my meter is on northeast wall of house which would be about 75 yards or more around the patio fence to the closest northwest corner of patio-closest to the island.

One question : does electrical have to enter island from patio beneath ? If so -- I don't think my wife will let me dig it up !! However - there is a covered drain strip for pool that has pvc channel inside that goes across patio from east to west. Can electric come up from there or right beside it ??

Another bit of info : my neighbor ran buried power from his elec pool box. I have one too but don't know any specifics on it yet.

Thanks for your help!
Wayne

PS - I have 2 empty spaces within the electrical box
 
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Old 07-16-14, 01:48 PM
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Pictures would help us advise you. Maybe a diagram showing breaker box and outdoor kitchen and a picture of the pool subpanel if there is one. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/li...-pictures.html
 
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Old 07-16-14, 03:30 PM
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OK Ray - Here is a sketch of my house and panel/island locations. Also - phone is down but pool electrical box is Model T10004rt3 -- Class CTL Distribution and Control Panel with Timer Switch and 12v 300W transformer

100 amp 120/240 V

There are 3 - 20 amp circuit breakers in the box and empty spaces for at least 2 more.

Thanks!
Wayne
 
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Old 07-17-14, 02:22 PM
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Ray - please see my latest post - thanks!
 
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Old 07-17-14, 03:33 PM
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Is the island touching the house? If so and the house is one story with an unfinished attic I'd say come up to the attic from the main panel then down inside of the wall to the island. Or maybe simpler if the pool subpanel is on the house wall just run conduit on the outside wall to the island.
 
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Old 07-18-14, 09:47 AM
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Island does not touch house - I left about 24" gap for walkthru purposes. Diagram does not show but patio has center steps leading up to door and a raised patio area. Running conduit from pool panel across patio would not be pretty.

Just to the left of the island is the exterior brick wall for our bedroom. Could wire run from box across ceiling and down wall and exit to outside ... and then run in conduit along bottom of wall and into island at NE corner ??

Thanks!
 
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Old 07-18-14, 10:51 AM
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Could wire run from box across ceiling and down wall and exit to outside ... and then run in conduit along bottom of wall and into island at NE corner ??
You mean through the attic not across the ceiling, correct? Yes you could but since the pool panel is at the SE corner of the house you could also come from there couldn't you?
 
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Old 07-18-14, 11:59 AM
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I could come from pool panel but I could'nt come across (on top of patio) with it and be able to hide it. I might be able to remove the pool drainage strip I referred to in earlier post - and dig under it. Otherwise - I would have to dig around perimeter of fence - which would make it a lot longer and more labor intensive to install.

Yes - thru attic on your ?
 
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Old 07-18-14, 12:29 PM
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Then I'd go with the through the attic run. You can run NM-b (Romex) to a junction box on the inside wall then bring your conduit into that box and transition to THWN single conductor wires. For a multiwire circuit you would run 12-3 NM-b to the junction box then transition to four #12 THWN wires (1 white, 1 black, 1 red, 1 green) in " PVC conduit. All receptacles must be weather proof and boxes have in-use covers.

At the island I would use a 2-gang weather proof box for the first box with two GFCIs mounted in it. Black to line of one GFCI and Red to line of the other GFCI. White pigtailed to both GFCIs. All other receptacles would be off the load side of those two GFCIs and would be GFCI protected non-GFCI receptacles. Lights can come from the line side of one of the GFCI receptacles in the first box.

Grounds connected per code.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 07-18-14 at 12:44 PM.
  #15  
Old 07-18-14, 06:30 PM
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Ray - Thanks so much for your help and patience - I think we are close to getting this done!

What do you think about this option: Run wire from pool box - up brick wall to eaves under the roof -- thru eaves over to wall near island -- down wall -- along bottom wall and into island??
 
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Old 07-18-14, 07:49 PM
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Run wire from pool box - up brick wall to eaves under the roof -- thru eaves over to wall near island -- down wall -- along bottom wall and into island?
One variation I will suggest if you have an enclosed soffit. Run conduit up from the pool subpanel into the soffit. Conduit would end an inch or two into the soffit. Run UF-b cable up into the soffit through the conduit and run with no conduit inside the soffit. (You can remove soffit vets to allow access to pull it.) Then run the cable through conduit from the soffit to the island. Use 1" PVC conduit.

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Old 07-19-14, 09:18 AM
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Excellent suggestion !! I will keep you posted with info and pics. It's funny - I guess the electricians around here don't need or want the work. I called about 5 --- 1 actually came and gave an estimate (15 amp - connected to interior outlet ) 2 - that were supposed to come but didn't and 2 - no call backs.
I think I'd rather Do It Myself !!

Thanks so much Ray!!
 
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Old 07-19-14, 09:31 AM
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Could you post a picture of the pool panel with the cover removed so we can get a better idea of if this will work. For the multiwire circuit you will need space for either a two pole breaker or two single pole breakers together so they can be handle tied. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/li...-pictures.html
 
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