Rv run done...Differently


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Old 08-03-14, 05:00 PM
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Rv run done...Differently

I just moved into this home with a rv parking spot on it. We have a 30 amp panel out there with 2 grounds a neutral and one leg of power. The barn beyond that has 240 off the same feeder. The Rv is about 100 feet away the barn is about 300 ft.

The feeder wire is something close to #3, BUT the guy who wired it used two individual conductors for each hot leg. It has one neutral coming back which is solid #6 i beilive.

Any issues with this? Reason i ask is i am pulling a permit and installing a new meter socket and main panel, new pole new weather head. Im junctioning over from these wires.


Any input would be great! Thank you!!
 
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Old 08-03-14, 05:42 PM
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Wires #8 and larger should be stranded.

I would like to see pictures of your setup. I am having trouble following.
 
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Old 08-03-14, 06:00 PM
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I dont have pictures at the moment. I will tomorrow.
Let me try to explain better.
I have a disconnect coming off my main panel, going to the RV and barn.

Inside the panel on the load side there are 2 lugs for a 240v connection. of the 4 hot wires, they are paired 2 per hot lug on the load side running all the way to the rv and barn.

Its like the guy didnt have a large enough wire for how long he wanted to run it so he used 2 wires where he should have used one larger wire.

EDIT, obivously there are more lugs for neutral and ground but they seem to be ran fine im just focusing on the hot wires.
 
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Old 08-03-14, 06:15 PM
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There are a couple of issues. The lugs are for one conductor,not two. The other issue is the wires sound too small to be paralleled.
 
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Old 08-03-14, 06:20 PM
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Could it cause any damage to the RV? Or the wires?

When i complete my job with the new service meter, the splicer reducer will accomodate both of the pair of 2 wires into a 2 awg wire. straight to the 40 amp main.
 
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Old 08-03-14, 07:20 PM
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When i complete my job with the new service meter, the splicer reducer will accomodate both of the pair of 2 wires into a 2 awg wire. straight to the 40 amp main.
When you have the new service installed, it would be best to have the contractor fix the mess you already have.
 
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Old 08-04-14, 03:38 AM
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well the reason I'm doing my own meter box and service is money. so getting this fixed won't be in the budget by the time I get my permit.

when I say I'm doing it. I am physically doing the work myself here. everything but the ground wire so far is up to NEC 2011 minus anything after my Junction box which I'm not pulling the permit for a re wire.
 
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Old 08-04-14, 03:51 AM
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Old 08-04-14, 04:14 AM
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That is worse than I thought. You have no over current protection on the reds. The neutral needs to be in the same conduit as the hots. There isn't really much there worth saving.
 

Last edited by pcboss; 08-04-14 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 08-04-14, 06:07 AM
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it's only in conduit to the ground and it's pvc. I could put them in 1 1in, instead of 2.

there is a breaker at the rv and on the other side of the disconnect.
 
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Old 08-04-14, 07:03 AM
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I am physically doing the work myself here. everything but the ground wire so far is up to NEC 2011 minus anything after my Junction box which I'm not pulling the permit for a re wire.
One of the reasons permits are rquired for electrical work is to prevent installations like you now have. It appears to me that it will be obvious to the inspector that the intent of the new service will be to power this mess. Won't he ask why it isn't included on the permit?
 
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Old 08-04-14, 07:30 AM
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yes, it's going to improve considerably the line side. for example if we pull a permit on a new air conditioning install, we won't get failed for stuff from another unit. I'm pulling it for just the service entrance.
 
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Old 08-04-14, 09:42 AM
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for example if we pull a permit on a new air conditioning install, we won't get failed for stuff from another unit. I'm pulling it for just the service entrance.
If the inspector happens to stop by some time in the future, which isn't unheard of, and sees you have connected the mess to the new service, you may be subject to a fine for not having a permit for that work. Just so you know.
 
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Old 08-04-14, 10:01 AM
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If you install a small outdoor rated panel you can resolve many of the issues we are seeing here.
 
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Old 08-04-14, 03:37 PM
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Well this is what im doing! These 4 hot wires will be running to a splicer in a wet safe junction box. going into 2 awg in to a 40 amp breaker.But it is still 4 hot conductors 125 feet to an rv pad where one 2 should have been used.
 
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Old 08-04-14, 08:15 PM
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"Splicer"??

If you install a panel with breakers you will have the over current protection for each run.
 
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Old 08-05-14, 03:14 AM
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technical term from part house is splicer reducer. it's a compression lug fitting that bonds two wires. they usually say cu7al on them. theyre small rectangular. the power company uses them to tie into the weather head supply wire.

so after the new panel is energized I still have the underground 4 wire with two wires connected for each hot wire. this isn't a code violation?
 
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Old 08-05-14, 07:04 AM
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Yes the parallel conductors would be an issue. That is why the panel will help. Each wire can be run from its own breaker.
 
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Old 08-05-14, 08:01 AM
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it's a compression lug fitting
Compression lugs also take a special tool to install. I like the suggestion from PCboss.
 
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Old 08-05-14, 08:08 AM
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Ooops! Double post. .................
 
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Old 08-05-14, 01:47 PM
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it's the rectangle metal box with two holes in the side with an alen key socket.

thanks for the suggestion pc boss. I may have two rewire my pond pump. wouldn't two double poles affect my 240v devices?

here's the ew service in progress. I'm allowed to leave the junction boxes unconnected till my change of service inspection.


imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
 
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Old 08-05-14, 01:56 PM
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Each of thosemlugs is good for one conductor per screw. I would use the remaining two pole breaker spot to feed a panel to serve the other loads like the pond and RV and any other planned or existing loads.

Just saw pictures, your meter main has space for 2 double pole or 4 single pole breakers. It sounds like you need more breaker spaces.

I do not understand the conduit runs and the intended purposes.
 
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Old 08-05-14, 04:26 PM
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The way it works now is from the crappy disconnect picture i posted, that runs to the rv spot, then to the barn. at the barn in the mess of wires they have one 240 volt pump. These locations both have a breaker at the rv and fuses in the barn.

The two wires your see there will be feeding the wires from the disconnect box shown, Meaning i would have one more slot enough for all 4 conductors.

Separated i don't think these wires are large enough to feed these two sources. a 3% voltage drop at the 125 feet and 300-400 foot run would want something like 2 awg. these are about 6 awg stranded.

Am i right in thinking that is how your approach would work?
 
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Old 08-05-14, 05:49 PM
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The wires are too small to be paralleled. Also they need over current protection where they originate as the tap rules probably do not apply.
 
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Old 08-06-14, 05:43 AM
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yea, I'll just leave them disconnected at the final inspection! there's no way around it for me. thanks for your input. can you see any issues with my new service?
 
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Old 08-06-14, 06:36 AM
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yea, I'll just leave them disconnected at the final inspection! there's no way around it for me. thanks for your input. can you see any issues with my new service?
Using deception to avoid failing inspection is not in your best interest. Either replace with correct size wire or remove and do not use the circuit until you can connect it correctly..
 
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Old 08-06-14, 06:42 AM
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I hope your meter height is within the allowable range. I do not see any straps on the conduit under the socket. Some might consider the area subject to damage and would require Schedule 80 PVC. I would also shorten the strut to avoid the chance for someone to walk into it.
 
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Old 08-06-14, 06:17 PM
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It wouldn't fly in my area; it's painfully obvious that you intend to connect the existing system to the service after the inspector leaves. Besides, if your permit only covers the new service you have already exceeded the limit of the permit by installing the PVC conduits. Your AHJ may be a lot more lenient than here though.
 
 

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