ceiling fan install/no existing light fixture

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  #1  
Old 03-15-01, 08:07 AM
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I want to install a ceiling fan with a light kit in a bedroom of my home. The problem is that there is no existing ceiling light fixture where I want this ceiling fan/light to go. I do have a wall switch that controls one entire outlet. I have an accessible unfinished attic and have already installed a ceiling fan electric box between the ceiling joist and cut the hole in the ceiling for the box. Now what do I do?

I would like to be able to turn on the wall switch and this would control the ceiling fan light, and I would like to be able to use the pull chain to operate the fan. However, I would like the option of using either the ceiling fan or the ceiling fan light independent of one another. How do I accomplish this. Or should I hire a pro?


Help!!!

 
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Old 03-15-01, 08:17 AM
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This can be accomplish , before I give you instructions I would like to know your current source of circuit power for the current switch & plug. To find this I need you to take the cover off of the existing switch, (turn off power to the circuit) you will likely have to unscrew andpull out the switch some to get a clear view on the box, tell me if there is one wire cable entering the switch box or 2 wire cables entering the switch box, and also tell me the color of the wire attached to the screws of the switch; if the switch is a basic 2-way switch then there will either be 2 blacks attached or a black and a white.

At the plug that is switched, do the same thing, tell me how many wire cables are entering the box, and look on the screws of the plug , there is a metal joining tab joing the 2 screws on each side of the plug, are these both intact or is the joining tab broke off on one side of the plug.

Each wire cable consists of a black/white and bare. Unless it is split plug or 3-way switch which could have an additional wire red.

Should there be different colors than mentioned then tell me what you have haev, where, connected to what.

Once I have that info I can give you the gusome details.

[/B][/QUOTE]
 
  #3  
Old 03-15-01, 09:28 AM
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DKerr....Thank you very much for taking the time to reply. I'm at work right now, however I will provide this information to you asap.

 
  #4  
Old 03-15-01, 06:50 PM
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Lightbulb

Here is the information you requested.

For the light switch there is one cable comming into the box with a black, white and a ground wire. There is one set of terminals on the switch with a white wire connected to one terminal and black wire connected to the other terminal. The ground is connected to the grounding screw.

For the outlet: there are two separate cables coming into the box. Each has three wires (black, white, and ground).

For the one set of the cables: the white wire is connected to the top left side terminal on the outlet. The black wire is pigtailed together with the white wire from the other set of cables and not connected to anything.

For the other set of cables: the black wire is connected to the top terminal on the right side of the outlet. The ground wires are twisted together from both sets of cables and connected to the grounding screw. See previous paragraph for the location of the white wire.

Thank you!
 
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Old 03-15-01, 07:16 PM
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Your source of circuit power is coming into the plug location.

I only have one more question then I will tell all...

Even if you use the pull strings at the fan , you can control the light and fan on separate pull spring, but if you want to be able to turn on and off the fan and always be able to turn on off the light at the switch regardless if the fan is on or off then you will need 2 switches. because with a single switch you will also switch the fan off when the light is turned off at the switch.

I assume you would want the existing outlet plug converted to an always on state, and the switch to control the ceiling fan/light combo.

If you want to install 2 switches , install it at the existing switch location, replacing the single box with a double box, only one new wire cable needs to be run and that is from the existing switch location to the ceiling box location. If you stick with using only the 1 switch then a 2 wire(black,white) +bare ground cable would be run, if you decide on a 2 switch setup then a 3 wire (black/red/white)+bare would be run from the existing switch box location to the ceiling box.

It might also be a good idea to run a 3 wire (black/red/white)+bare even if you do decide on using only 1 switch , and cap the red at either end, that will make like easilier if at a later date you decide to go the 2 switch route, or add a wall speed control.

I also thank you for you very clear description of the wiring I asked for.
 
  #6  
Old 03-15-01, 07:38 PM
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Smile

You assume correctly I want the existing outlet plug converted to an always on state and the switch to just control the ceiling fan/light combo. How do I accomplish that?

I think I will install the double box/two switch set up. I understand that I will need another switch and a bigger box. I also understand that I will run a 3 wire (black/red/white and bare) from the second switch to the ceiling box. Dont I need to tie this second switch into the first switch somehow? Please explain how?

Thank you for your prompt reply.

 
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Old 03-15-01, 09:12 PM
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Thank you Linda I have all the info I need, I will post you step by step details on how to do this likely by 7:30 pm EST tomorrow (Friday), or before. It is almost midnight here and I want to be fully awake when I give all the precise details.
 
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Old 03-16-01, 07:50 AM
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Good morning Linda, here we go...

1st switch off the circuit breaker for this circuit before starting.

At the existing outlet (plug) box, remove the wires from the existing plug, disconnected all wires that are currently connected together here. Now the black from one cable connects to the black from the other cable and a short piece of black wire going to the brass color screw of plug. The white wire from one cable connects to the white wire from the other cable and a short piece of white wire going to the silver color screw of plug. All bare wires together and grounded to grounding screw of box and connected to the grounding screw of plug (possibly greeen).
Put an insulated wire nut over the wire connections.

That will finish the work at the existing plug, adn put the plug in an always on state.

Now at the switch , remove the switch. You will have to replace the current single box with a double box , so that 2 switches can be mounted into the box.

From this double switch box, run a 3 wire + bare from the switch location to the light/fan location.

I will refer to the switch controlling the light as switch 1, and the switch controlling the fan as switch 2 both at the same double box that 2 switches will be insatlled in.

The wire that previously was in the switch box (coming from the plug) that cables wires will now be refered as cirucit black, circuit white.

...

Connect circuit white to white going to fan/light location.

Connect 2 short black wires to cicuit black. Put an insulated wire nut over the connection.

1 of the short black wires connect to one screw of screw 1, and the other short black wire connect to one screw of switch 2.

the black wire going to ceiling fan/light connects to the otehr screw of switch 1, the red going to ceiling fan/light goes to the other screw of switch 2.

All ground bare wires together and grounded to grounding screw of box.

At the ceiling fan/light location, the white serves as a neutral for both light and fan, the black is the hot to connect for the light, and the red serves as the hot that connects to the hot of the fan.

Please read carefully the wiring instructions that came with the light/fan, as this will give the wiring details for the light/fan itself, and further questions, please ask.

You bigest challedge is likely feeding the new wire thru the wall, and you will likely have to open the drywall up a bit to change from a single switch box to a double switch box, then repatch, if it is done properly it will be a good job in the end.

Switch 2 is an on/off for the fan, forward/reverse is by the pull string, speed control is by the pull string, leave the light pull string always on, so that it is always controlled by the wall switch.

There is speed controls that are available that can replace switch2 to contol fan speed, read documentation that came with the light/fan unit for advice on that, or just stay with the switch, and control fan speed at the pull string.

Let me know how it goes...

 
  #9  
Old 03-16-01, 08:00 AM
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Thank you very much for all your time. I plan to work on this over the weekend. I will let you know how I did.

 
  #10  
Old 03-18-01, 06:57 AM
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I need your help! I had to work most of Saturday so I was only able to attack converting the existing switched outlet to an always on outlet.

I did exactly as instructed in the previous reply....disconnected all the wires to the exisiting outlet, and pigtailed a small piece of black wire to the other two black wires capped with a wire nut. I then attached this one pigtailed black wire to the brass screw terminal on the outlet. I repeated the same thing for the white wires but attached to the silver screw termninalon the outlet. I connected all the grounds together and attached to the outlet green screw. Restored the power and everything worked greatt...UNTIL I turned the wall switch off and on.

I lost power immediately and tripped the breaker. I restored the power at the breaker and still none of the outlest worked except for one outlet in the room. My outlet tester indicates that the "Hot/ground Reversed". In frustration I (Attempted to)reconnected the outlet like it was before I started working on it. I'm still getting the same indication on the outlet tester ("Hot/ground reversed) and none of the outlets with the exception of one outlet are working. (Anyone have an extension cord???) WHAT NOW?????

 
  #11  
Old 03-18-01, 07:09 AM
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Linda the whole procedure was based on a completed project , when you changed as per my instuctions the existing plug, teh next step was to remove the wires from the wall switch, without removing the wires and reconfiguring the wall switch you will create a dead short when the switch is on. The new wirng configuration at the existing plug made the existing plug in an always on state but also made the the wire from the exsisting plug to the wall switch a ciruit power supply wire, not a switch wire, without removing that part from the wall switch and do that part of the procedure , the wall switch will cause a dead short when switched on.
 
  #12  
Old 03-18-01, 07:25 AM
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Please bear with me as I'm just a do it yourselfer.

I guess my question is.... have I damaged the switch or outlets in any way? If I have reconnected the outlet back to the way it was before I started changing everything WHY are none of the outlets working? That in itself worries me.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, if I am able to get this whole thing wired ceiling fan/light and outlet as per your previous insructions, it all should work! My little mistake has wounded my confidence and ego to say the least. Thank you for being patient and replying back.
 
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Old 03-18-01, 08:19 AM
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Don't worry Linda, I propably should have stated before that it could not be done in separate stages. It is not the worse thing that I have seen happened.

Ok what I would like you to do here since we are looking down the road at a completed project, is to first make sure the breaker is off, now remove the light switch completely and use an insulator wire nut on the white and black wires entering that box, so that these wires are not connected to anything, and 1 wire nut is on each wire to prevent them from touching anything or each other, and then push the wires carefully into the box and put a cover on it. Now go to that existing plug location that you were working on before, do like you already tried and follow my proceedure for the existing plug. Black to black and short black to brass color screw of plug, white to white and short white going to silver color screw of plug. bare together and grounde dto grounding scrw of box and grounding screw of plug (possibly green). Now this should give that plug as stated before an always on state, the wire going to the switch is now a circuit supply wire cable to used with switches and fan/light portion.

Damage ? well hopefully the breaker was tripped fast enough that no damage occured, plugs and switches are cheap, look for burned or black areas of the plug, like I said hopefully it triggered the breaker fast enough that you got away with it. That is the breakers purpose to hopefully provide the weekest link in the circuit so it is the first to go.

Once you have done this turn the breaker on, if no power turn the breaker fully off and then back on.

What I am aiming for here is to get step 1 of the proicedure working perfectly and that plug chanegd to an always on state, and to protect the same thing from happening again by removing the switch and protecting those wires with an insulation wire nut, 1 nut on each wire.

We will confirm and make sure that everything else is working as before , before moving on.

Does everything work now. Repost and we will take it from there.




 
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Old 03-18-01, 10:35 AM
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I removed the light switch completely and put one wire nut on each wire (one on the black wire and a seperate wire nut on the white wire). Tucked it all back in the box.

I went back to the outlet (I bought an new outlet even though it showed no signs of burning or damage) and and connected black to black with a little wire and connected to the brass terminal. Connected the white to white with a little wire and connected to the silver screw. The grounds were twisted together and went to the ground screw on the outlet. There is no grounding screw in the (plastic) box to connect to. Turned on the power and nothing is working. The outlet tester still indicates Hot/Ground Reverse situation. The Neon circuit tester is not lighting when placed in the outlet even though the power is on. This problem not working problem is affecting all the outlets in this room and several in the next bedroom. Until I can remedy this situation I have been keeping the power turned off at the breaker because I don't know if this is an unsafe situation or not.

Thank you your replies they are very easy to understand for the Do it your selfer.
 
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Old 03-18-01, 11:50 AM
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First of Linda don 't panic, you will be ok, we know that when you orginally followed the proceedure and turned back on the power everything was well until you switched on the switch, correct ?

Now we have taken the switch out of the equation, and you again returned the outlet plug to the way I instructed you do it ? Now you say that the plugs in this room and several in the next bedroom are out, are these the only plugs or lights in the house that is affected ?

Account for all that is not working with this circuit off, from what you appear to have stated to it was only plugs that is affected not lights. Anyone of the non-working plugs could be a problem. Especially if the plug is being used to continue the circuit instead of the pigtail method.

Plugs have 2 methods of connection, the push in pinch type , and the screw connections on the side of the plug, I usually recommend using only the screw type connections as they are less problems than the push in pinch connections.

Make sure if there is GFI plugs anywhere on the circuit , (they are the ones that have a test & reset button on the plug itself) that the reset button is pushed in. If no GFI then tell me that also.

Turn off the circuit should have ease your mind.

One more question note which plugs are not working when the breaker is on, then note which plugs are not working when the breaker is off. The reason for that is that I am trying to determine where the circuit is broken, lets say 1 plug works in the other room when the breaken is on , and the plug does not work when the breaker is off. Checking that plug and the nearest plug that doesn't work may be the first place to look. Do you have a voltage tester , you appear to have one that you plug into the outlet to test, but do you have one that you can just touch 2 wires with to check for voltage, just a cheap one will do.

I will work with you until this is repared and your project is complete, so its not the end of the world.

Repost and then we proceed to check the other plug locations, give me the answers to these questions first.




 
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Old 03-18-01, 01:12 PM
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The breaker for all this is a 15 amp and indicates bedroom receptacles only which makes sense as there are no ceiling light fixtures in these rooms. The outlets in two bedrooms seem to be affected only. Everything else in the house appears to normal.

There is only one outlet working in this room when the power is restored. However, only one of the receptacles is working (the bottom one) on this outlet. The good news is it indicates correct when I insert my little tester. It's interesting as this particular outlet that is halfway working is on an outside wall and the one I have been working on is on an inside wall separated by a doorway.

The method of connection I have used on the receptacle is to wrap the wire around the terminal screw. I have not used the push in connection method. There are no GFCI's on this circuit.

I don't know if I have a voltage tester or not, I have this gismo that has a red and black brobe designed to plug into the outlet and lights if there is power. I use this gismo to check to make sure there is no power. Let me know if I need something else... The guys at Lowes are getting to know me by name.

There are eight receptacles that are not working. Of these eight receptacles 4 are in the room I have been working on. The other 4 are in a separate bedroom and this other room has a wall switch that controls one of the outlets that is not working. Like I said above there is one particially working receptacle on this circuit. This I hope is encouraging.

In the meantime, I removed the single switch box and am getting ready to run the new 14/3 wire down from the fan/light location to the new double box.
 
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Old 03-18-01, 02:35 PM
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Linda I am really impressed, you are very good and clear on your answers,

I Understand there is one outlet in the same room that you were working, that you say has 1/2 half of the plug working, I want you to pull it out, I want to know a couple of things...

1st look on both sides of the plug, is any of the joining tabs broken on either side of the plug ?

2nd how many wire cables are entering this box and how are they connected ?

I would also like you to confirm it is in the same room that you were working in.

 
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Old 03-18-01, 04:28 PM
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Thank you for the compliment on clarity... I work for an electric utility and for a living write responses to customer inquires that come via the internet. That's why I need to do this job myself, as I need my money more than the electrican does.

For the outlet(the one that is partially working) is in the same room I have been working in. When I pulled the cover off the outlet, the interior of the box has a singe mark on it. The wires are all ok.. the insulation to the wires are intact and ok. The outlet itself looks fine, no burn marks whatsoever.

There are two sets of cables coming into this outlet box (with the standard three colors, white,black and ground). The white wires are attached individually to each one of the silver terminals. The black wires are attached individually to each one of the brass terminals. The ground wires are pigtailed togehter and attached to the ground screw on the outlet. The joining tab appears to be broken on both sides of the outlet.


Another question.. This joining tab..I left it intact on the outlet I replaced earlier today.. Is that correct?

The whole day has not been lost....I was successful at intalling the double light switch box and feeding the wire from the ceiling fan/light and to the switch.. don't worry I have not installed the actual light swithes. Maybe I stand a chance at being an electrician's journey man if I get laid off or something crazy!!! (Smile). Thank you for all your help!!!




 
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Old 03-18-01, 04:57 PM
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You stated...

"For the outlet(the one that is partially working) is in the same room I have been working in. When I pulled the cover off the outlet, the interior of the box has a singe mark on it. The wires are all ok.. the insulation to the wires are intact and ok. The outlet itself looks fine, no burn marks whatsoever."

"The joining tab appears to be broken on both sides of the outlet."
___________________________________________________________

This statement of what you found, I need more info.
Before this latest problem, when all was well , this plug was working perfectly , both halves and was in always on state , not switched, correct ?. You say that the box has a singe mark on it, a burn like mark on it. You also stated that the both joining tabs appear to be broken.

Even with split plugs or switched plugs , usually there is a common neutral and the brass color screw side is the only broken tab. I wonder if when the circuit was shorted that both these joining tabs melted and broke away. If that was the case with the wires not pigtailed and using the screws of the plug to make connection to the next wire, this would prevent power from continueing to the rest of the circuit.

Pull the plug out a big from the box look again at the between the 2 brass color screws and between the silver color screws to confirm no joining tab between them, compare it to another plug if need be. Tell me the status of this plug before the mishap, again I need you to tell me that both halves of this plug was before in an always on state and never controlled by any switch.

 
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Old 03-18-01, 05:06 PM
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Sorry I forgot to answer your one question.

"Another question.. This joining tab..I left it intact on the outlet I replaced earlier today.. Is that correct?"

Yes that is correct leave the tabs intact-no touch.
This is the plug that we converted to an always on state.

 
  #21  
Old 03-18-01, 05:52 PM
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Well I checked two other outlets in different rooms and they all have the same appearance. They all appear to have no joining tabs. Is that possible? The new outlet I bought and installed today had very apparent brass joining tabs.

Before this mishap, this outlet was in an always on state and not associated with any switch to control it.
 
  #22  
Old 03-18-01, 06:11 PM
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Linda , I want you check a plug that is working both halfs, if there is one on the same circuit that works both halfs then check it for broken tabs. If there is not one on the same circuit that has both half's working. Then check an known always on plug on a different circuit, you may have to switch off that other circuit just for a few monents to do this, check for broken tabs on that plug.

Next check another plug that is on the circuit that is not working , and you know from your previous tests that it doesn't work with the power on. Look at the tabs.

The other 2 outlets that you checked that you say have broken tabs are they on the same problem circuit, and each of those outlets that you checks have 2 wire cables entering the box, each with a black/white/bare. Is there singe marks on those boxes.

I just want to get some consistency here between the plugs that work both sides and the ones that don't. You may be going back to buy several replacement plugs, but tell me what you find here first.




 
  #23  
Old 03-18-01, 07:05 PM
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There is no other plug working on this same circuit except the one with the singed box.

I have checked a total of 4 outlets. Two outlets on a working circuit and two other outlets on the non-working circuit.

The 2 outlets on the non-working circuit look fine, No burn marks or anything. They all have two sets of cables coming into their outlet boxes with three wires (black,white and ground). The wires are all connected individually to the appropriate terminal screws on the outlet. They all look like the other outlets and appear to have no tabs.

The other two outlets I checked are on a different working circuit and look the same as the other oulets..tabless. They too have two sets of cables entering their outlet boxes with black, white and ground. Like above the wires are all connected individually to the appropriate terminal screws on the outlet.

 
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Old 03-18-01, 07:23 PM
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This simply doesn't make sense, there must be connectivity from one plug to the next. If the wires are only going to screws and the only path to the next wire is at the screws of the plug then the 2 brass screw must be joined together , and the 2 white screw must be joined together. No one would wire isolated circuits to different halfs of every plug in the house.

I going to go on a hunch here, the plug you found that was known to be in an always on state but now only half of it works . It is on the problem circuit, in the same room that you are working in. I want that plug replaced , do NOT break off any tabs, and connect black to black and a short black wire going to the brass color tab of the plug .
White connect to white and a short white going to the silver color screw of plug , bares to grounding screw of plug and to the grounding screw of plug (possibly green)

Linda I think what we are seeing is that the plugs appear to have no joining tabs, is that you have a different style plug and the 2 screw are joined internally or is made of a metal plate that joins the 2 screws, the new plugs connect the 2 halfs only by a joining tab.

Once you are finished replacing that plug, turn the breaker back on, now check both halfs of the plug that previosuly only worked on one half of it. Check both halfs, check the other plugs.



 
  #25  
Old 03-18-01, 07:25 PM
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Oh and don't forget to put insulated wire nuts over your wire conenctions.
 
  #26  
Old 03-18-01, 07:45 PM
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I will buy a new outlet (tomarrow) and I will connect exactly like you instructed. I will let you know the outcome probably after 6:00 pm eastern time tomarrow. Thanks for the help!
 
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Old 03-18-01, 10:30 PM
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If you 2 have scanners you could scan hand drawings

of wiring diagrams. Can we post pictures here somehow ?......dont want to sound like an old hat but a picture is worth.........

[Edited by will-at-home on 03-19-01 at 12:37]
 
  #28  
Old 03-19-01, 04:44 AM
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She is very good in her replies, and very clear on the answers, I wish I always got such co-operation and clarity in all cases, which helps a great deal. There is cases where a picture is worth a thousand words, I am not sure in this case any diagram or picture would benifit me or make anything clearer at this time, it seems evident that a conenction was lost or a plug damaged when the circuit was shorted, it is just a matter of finding that fault and then continueing on with the project.
 
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Old 03-19-01, 05:23 PM
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I replaced that outlet and IT WORKED!!!! Everything all the outlets are working again. I even used the plug in tester and all the lights indicate that everything is "CORRECT". Thank you so much for your help.

I will post a reply again when this job is totally complete with a working ceiling fan/light. Hopefully I will not have any further trouble.
 
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Old 03-19-01, 07:15 PM
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That is good new Linda, let me know how the project works out.
 
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Old 03-21-01, 08:07 PM
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I successfuly completed wiring the ceiling fan light with two wall switches... and much to my suprise it all works!
Many thanks to you for all your help. I would never have considered doing this myself without your very clear direction.

Thanks again!
 
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Old 03-21-01, 08:40 PM
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You are very welcome Linda, and think of the money you saved by doing it yourself. Keep us in mine if you need any help in any of your future projects.
 
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Old 03-30-01, 08:22 AM
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Dkerr,

Since I have sucessfully installed three ceiling fans with lights under your direction... now I want to do the same in my livingroom. Like the previous installations I do not have an existing light fixture, just a wall switch. The main difference is that I have two switches that can be accessed from different locations (one switch near the front door and one switch near the hallway that control the same outlet in the livingroom. Is this possible for me (the novice do it yourselfer) to wire this ceiling fan/light with this configuration? If it is possible, does it matter which switch I connect to (the hallway or front entry one)?

Also the switch near my front door is already in a double gang box ..the other switch operating an exterior light.

The other switch near the hallway is also in a double gang box ..the other switch operating the hall light.

 
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Old 03-30-01, 11:32 AM
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Thanks for coming back, Linda. You made it through the other projects ok, this is a slightly different twist but I think you can do it.

First you currently haev 2 3-way switches that control the existing outlet. As before I need some information ....

1. the existing outlet that is switched, is both halfs of the plug switched or only half of the plug switched. I assume it is only the one plug that is currently switched.
How many wire cables are entering the switched plug. Each wire cable would have a black/white/bare, or it could be a black/red/white/bare.Which wires are conencted to the switch and connected inside the box.

2. It is again a fan/light combo that yoy are installing and do you want them separately switch, remember you already have a double gang box at both switch locations, adding a third switch/triple gang box at one location or both ??? There is a couple of possibilies....


a. switch fan and light together.

b. use a triple at one location where the fan will only be controlled at one location only, and the light at 2 locations.

c. both fan and light separately switched at both locations. May mean a triple box at 2 locations. Or arrange for an existing double and a single box at slightly differnt locations on the wall.


3. I will need to know how many wire cables are entering switch Box A at the door location, and switch Box B at the hallway location. Again each cable will be black/white/bare or black/red/white/bare. What wires are conencted to the switch itself, and which wires are connected together ion the box.


For the duration of this project lets keep some common reference points so we both are clear thruout this.

SWITCH BOX A - AT THE DOOR LOCATION (currently a double gang box - 2 switches)
-switch 1 of box A is the 3-way switch currently controlling the outlet plug (or at least half of it)
-switch 2 of box A is switching the exterior light.


SWITCH BOX B - AT THE HALLWAY LOCATION (OR NEAR THE HALLWAY)
-switch 1- is the 3-way also currently controlling the outlet plug (or half od it).
-switch 2 controlling the hall light.

You may want to reference you wire cables entering each box somehow , like black from cable one is connected to switch 1. Or black from cable 2 is connected to the common screw of switch 2. You get the idea. It just makes it easilier for both you and me to make our info clear.

The last thing Linda what else is on that circuit (the sam circuit that the switch is controlling the existing outlet on. I just don't want to max out an existing circuit any of the other fans our on the same circuit. If you still have the boxes and info that came with the other fan/lights that you installed it may may indicate the current draw for that fixture.

Since you seem to follow instructions very well, and you accomplish your other project sucessfully , I have faith that if you did that , you can do this.










 
  #35  
Old 04-02-01, 09:21 PM
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Well this seems like it installation may be more complicated, but I will try to provide all the pieces of this puzzle. I may have provided more information than was necessary. I hope this will not overwelm you as I feel like I've written a book.

In addition to switch box A at the door location and switch box B at the hallway location, I also have a single wall switch that is located directly under the double gang box switch A. This single switch operates an exterior flood light. I will refer to this single flood switch as Switch Box C. It seems this flood light was added after the fact, but I'm not sure.

Also as far as the switched outlet is concerned, both halves are controlled by a wall switch. Note that there is another outlet that is closer in proximity to switch Box A, and I believe this unswitched outlet is providing power to the switch box C and switch 2 of box A. I say this because there are three cables entering this unswitched outlet (black, white and ground) two of the white wires are connected to the silver screws, the other white is pushed into the quick connect thing on the back of the outlet, the same is repeated for the three black wires except that they are connected to the brass screws and one black wire is quick connected on the back of the outlet.

FOR THE SWITCHED OUTLET: (both halves are switched) there are three cables entering this box as well....(black, white, ground). Cable one enters on the left side of the switched outlet and is connected as follows: white to the silver screw on the outlet, black wire is pigtailed to black wire from cable 2 along with white wire from cable three..and not connected to anything. Cable two enters the box on the right side ..the white wire is connected to the silver screw on the outlet. Cable three enters the box on the right side ...black wire is connected to brass screw on the outlet. Grounds are all twisted together and not connected to the ground screw.

SWITCH BOX A- DOOR LOCATION: There are four sets of cables entering this box. Switch 1 & Switch 2 are wired independently from one another. In addition to that there's one (unsheathed) cable entering this gang box from the top (coming from the ceiling) and exiting the bottom of the gang box..it's not connected to anything in box A. I believe this unsheathed cable is powering the flood light and enters the single box switch C as the flood cable wire orinates in the attic.
switch 1 box A AT DOOR LOCATION: One cable (three wires white,black, ground)originates from the bottom of the box and connected as follows: black to screw on the right side of switch 1, white is pigtailed to black on other set of cable wires (which enters through the top of the gang box) and not connected to anything... this other set of cable has black, red, white and ground. It's connected as follows white to right side of switch 1, red to left side of switch 1. The grounds are twisted together with the grounds from switch 2 and not connected to anything.

Switch 2 box AT DOOR LOCATION: there are two sets of cables (white, black, ground) connected to switch two. One set of cables enters the box from the ceiling location (I will assume that this cable feeds the outdoor light fixture) and connects as follows: black to screw on right side of switch 2, white is pigtailed to other white wire that enters from the bottom of the box and not connected to anything. The other set of wires enters the gang box from the bottom. With the (black) wire connected to other screw on the right side of switch 2.


SWITCH BOX B- AT THE HALLWAY LOCATION- Switch 1 and two are wired independently from one another.
SWITCH 1 - Also Controls the entire outlet plug. One set of cable wires (black, white, red and ground) are connected to this switch. Red and black are connected to the right side of switch 1 box B. White is connected to left side of switch 1 box b.
SWITCH 2 - Controls the hallway light. Please note that switch 2 is powered by a different circuit breaker. One set of cable wires (black, white, red and ground) are connected to this switch and connected in the same same manner as switch 1 box b.

There are 6 outlets, one exterior flood, & one exterior light on this 15 amp circuit. As far as how this fan/light will operate, I can live with the method A -Switch fan and light together. Will I have to run wire from both switches Box A & B and to the ceiling fan? ..that's the part I'm unclear about (remember I'm a novice at this)!

Also any tips or tricks of the trade would be greatly appreciated on how to fish cable inside of an insulated wall.







 
  #36  
Old 04-03-01, 05:01 AM
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Thank you Linda, I am leaving for work in about 15 minutes, and will get you the details sometime today.
 
  #37  
Old 04-03-01, 08:52 AM
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This will be fairly easy, you will only have to run 1 new wire cable between the hallway SWITCH BOX B location to the ceiling location wires will have to rewired at BOX A and at the outlet location. What is the size of the one exterier flood on this circuit (watts), and the other exterior light. I would imagine that the 1 exterior light is not over 60 watts and the flood is not over 100 watts. If there are not excessively high watt bulbs there should not be a problem.

Again both fan & light on the same switch that you want, correct ? that will be the easiliest , if you want fan and light switched separately it can be done but with more work, and wiring. Both switched together will be the easilier of the 2 senereos.

I will post between 1 and 2 pm with the wiring details based on both fan/light together unless you post otherwise. In this option the wire from the plug will be converted to an always on state , the switch wire to an circuit supply wire going to Box A and the wiring changed at box A and Box B, new wire to ceiling at box B hallway.
 
  #38  
Old 04-03-01, 10:12 AM
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I will have to get back to this evening on the wattage of the bulbs for the flood and exterior light.

Yes I want both the fan and light on the same switch. Yes, I realize that I would have to wire the switched outlet to be in an always on state.. tried to bypass that step in my daughters ceiling fan installation and could n't understand why the ceiling fan/light wouldn't work. Live and Learn!

Remember I'm the novice electrician when you post your instructions for wiring all this. Thanks alot for your time!

 
  #39  
Old 04-03-01, 11:48 AM
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Before any work is done switch off the breakers of all the circuits that is present at either BOX A, B and currently switched outlet plug, we don't want any live wires that you could brush against in these boxes.

At the currently switched plug that BOX A switch 1, and BOX B switch 1 is controlling...
All blacks are together and short black to brass color screw of plug. All whites together and short white to silver color screw of plug. grounds together and grounded to box as well as grounding screw of plug.

At Door location Box A, we deal only with 2 cables, that has 1 or more wires currently connected at switch 1...
anything currently connected to any other switch , we don't touch...
the red/black/white cable that has 2 of its wires connected to switch 1 is the cable that is being routed to switch 1 of Box B (hallway location). the other cable black/white/bare that currently has 1 wire on switch 1 that is now a circuit power supply cable coming from the plug that was just converted, I will refer to the wires in this cable as circuit black and circuit white. Disconnect the wires of these 2 cables only from where they are all connected now, make sure anything else connected in this box stays connected as it is.

Circuit white is connected to white of the cable going to BOX B (remember that cable has black/red/white/bare and had previously had some wires on switch 1 of box A).
Circuit black to the common screw of switch 1 BOX A.
the other 2 wires of the cable going to box b that is black & red go to the other 2 screw of switch 1.

AT Box B switch 1 (hallway location - switch previously controlling plug)...
run a wire cable (black/white/bare)from here to the ceiling location.
The black going to light connects to the common screw of switch 1 box B.
The white from light and white coming from Box A (the black/red/white/bare cable) connect together.
the black and red wires of the cable from box A connect to the other 2 screw of teh 3-way switch.

bare wires are always together and grounded to box.

At the fan/light location is the same as before except the fan and light hots are both connected to the wire coming from switch 1 Box B (hallway), white serves as neutral connection for both fan/light and conenct to its white, bares and any green wires are connected together and grounded to box.

Linda we only deal at BOX A and BOX B with the wire cables that had 1 or more wire connected to the switch before, only those cables we are touching, if the cable had no conenctions to switch 1 at BOX A OR B, we leave as it is now. Plus of course the new wire that is going from Box B (hallway) to light/fan location at ceiling.

I have a diagram of the wiring layout I will post it this evening as I can't convert bmp to jpeg at work, so I emailed it home and will post it this evening.

[Edited by dkerr on 04-03-01 at 01:59]
 
  #40  
Old 04-03-01, 05:28 PM
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At the fan the black wire connect to both the fan and light hot wire. The white connects to the white at the fan/light combo. ground wires and any green wires together and grounded to box.

The plug as stated in my previous message converted as instructed to an always on state and tehreby in the process make the wire cable going from plug to box A a circuit power supply cable.


[Edited by dkerr on 04-03-01 at 07:34]
 
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