One Single Split duplex Receptacle Carrying 120 & 220 v

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Old 08-10-14, 04:21 AM
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One Single Split duplex Receptacle Carrying 120 & 220 v

Dear all,

Greetings.

Is it safe to split one single duplex outlet to 110 and 220 (the outlet is for 220v 20 amp), where the bottom, for instance, carries 110v for a garbage disposal and the top carries 220v for dishwasher and both of them run directly to separate breaker circuits. Both straps are broken on both sides of the outlet. So each run different current that go to different breakers like I said. Also, the bottom one (for the garbage disposal) is being controlled by another split combo outlet switch, where the switch is obviously used to power on/off the garbage disposal and the switch is 220v I'm gonna for additional appliances if needed (which is the same line that runs to the dishwasher). This combo is also splitted the same way. The straps on both sides are broken. Everything seems perfectly fine. Disposal is on 20amp breaker and dishwasher is on a GFCI double 20 amp. The wiring according to standard and grounded according to standard. I'm just wondering if it's safe to break off the metal straps on both sides of the outlets: the duplex and the combo outlet switch. My dishwasher doesn't require more than 15amp. The same with the disposal.
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Thank you very much for your time and answer.

Best regards,
 

Last edited by aaljumah; 08-10-14 at 04:39 AM. Reason: Added pictures
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Old 08-10-14, 04:44 AM
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Welcome to the forums. Short answer, no. Why would a dishwasher run off 240 volts? Did you import a European version? If so it probably won't work on our 60 Hz supply. That setup is totally wrong. The receptacles can't have combined voltages run to them. The receptacle configuration for 240 volts is not correct where switched, and incorrect where 120 v is used on the duplex. With a standard SPST switch, it is probably only switching one leg, which leaves the other leg hot.
 
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Old 08-10-14, 07:49 AM
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The voltage and ampacity rating on devices have different slot configurations to prevent the interchange. With your setup someone could plug in a blender to 240 volts and let the smoke out.
 
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Old 08-10-14, 07:50 AM
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The combination switch/receptacle device pictured and marked 220V is at the most rated for 15 amps at 125 volts; this is a code violation and a definite hazard. That being said, I have seen in commercial office buildings a duplex device with both 125V and 250V rated receptacles on one yoke, but they are generally powered from one 20 amp 2 pole breaker. I haven't seen one of those devices in a long time, but assume they are still available.
 
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Old 08-10-14, 08:03 AM
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Old 08-10-14, 08:16 AM
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Thanks, Ray, that would be the one. I have seen them used in commercial hallways where some floor machines operate at 208 volts and some operate at 120 volts. Also seen them used in mail room/copy center operations and sometimes in mechanical rooms where boilers, chillers and pumps are located.
 
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Old 08-10-14, 09:07 AM
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Of course for safety any switch is going to have to be a 20 amp DPST not the 15 amp SPST switch found on a Switch/Receptacle combo.
 
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Old 08-10-14, 03:24 PM
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Thanks & Is it still safe or do I have to replace them?

Thank you very much for your replies. The dishwasher is whirlpool but European and it's
220v 60 hz. I live in Saudi Arabia and now they required all appliances to
be 220v only for whatever reason. No more 110 available in the market. We used to have 110 dishwashers but no more. They stopped bringing 110. My house is built and wired by the American
Bechtel company. All my appliances are Kenmore. Every thing is done according to American standards (pass & Seymour co. for outlets) but I
messed these two receptacles and changed them to what you see in the
pictures in the 1st post (though it's written on them they're made in the US, i doubt their quality 'cause they don't look like the ones I replaced; weight and texture; probably fake).

Because I didn't have a dishwasher before i did what i did. Both metal straps (neutral and hot) are broken for both receptacles. So each part is controlled by a separate circuit breaker. Is that
safe or do I really have to find the duplex designed for 110/220? Also for the
switch combo, I'm not sure if I can find one suitable for dual voltage; that's switch for 110v and receptacle for 220v and the same for dual voltage receptacle. If I do find them, are they both separated or do I have to break the metal that joins them like I did with these ones? That's to say, can they be controlled by separate breaker?

Initially, I had only the garbage disposal with a single outlet receptacle (pictured below) under the sink.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36257[/ATTACH]

running 120v (Kenmore 1/3 horsepower) and one single switch controlling it (pictured below), which, in its turn, is being controlled by a 20 amp breaker.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36258[/ATTACH]

Also, I had an empty GFCI double 20 amp breaker in the box that's marked as RCBO. So, I used that one for wiring to my dishwasher. Its location in the box was very convenient just above the breaker for the disposal.

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So I wired to it according to standard to my dishwasher and had to do what i did because I didn't want to add additional receptacles and place them ON the wall. My house is precast concrete. Digging is not attainable and sticking them out on the wall like a sore thumb isn't nice.

So now what to do? Is it safe or do I have to replace them?

Just heard that there's an agent that sells Pass & Seymour products and everything American. Hope I find what you suggested and hope they're designed and manufactured to be separated in one single yoke.

(Another hassle to worry about in the future ---If this disposal breaks down, 220v only available now -- just contacted Kenmore agent in Saudi Arabia. Dishwashers too not available yet because of this confusion about having 220v only... oh well like it matters now that I bought a whirlpool. Damn it and this worry will begone when i have to replace it 'cause it will be all 220 v.
 

Last edited by aaljumah; 08-10-14 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 08-10-14, 03:31 PM
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I live in Saudi Arabia
Using the receptacle and switch I posted would be safe. What you have would not be considered safe in the US. However in the US 120 and 240 or a combined supply so you could run a single 3-conductor cable but id Saudi Arabia is like the Philippines you may have two separate supplies. If so it would be a question of if that receptacle could use to separate cable feeds and of course you would need two switches. Best guess is that receptacle I linked to would work.
 
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Old 08-10-14, 03:38 PM
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Thank you. I see the picture for the dual voltage duplex. Thank you for that. Hope I can find it. Can you please show me a picture of a dual voltage combo switch/receptacle? I am searching for it and I couldn't find it. Also, if I find them, do I have to break the metal strap that joins the hot and neutral or are they already manufactured separate?
 
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Old 08-10-14, 03:46 PM
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There is a link to Amazon below the receptacle.
Can you please show me a picture of a dual voltage combo switch/receptacle?
I doubt they exist.
do I have to break the metal strap that joins the hot and neutral
That would never occur on a US device. That would be a dead short. In the US one hot and one neutral is 120 volts. In SA if you have two separate sources, one for 110v and one for 220 volts the two sides would need to be not be connected in anyway.
 
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Old 08-10-14, 03:47 PM
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You're right we used to have 220 (neutral and hot making 220 and it's still is in part of Saudi Arabia) in the part where i live no 2 hot make 220. I broke the two straps on both sides and they're running fine. But I got worried 'cause I see a little spark in the combo switch receptacle when i power on/off the garbage disposal. The little spark appears in one hole of the outlet below the switch. That made me worried. Once I saw it, I told my wife not to power the disposal when the dishwasher is running. I had my work inspected by an electrician and he said it's okay for the wiring and the breaker and there's nothing wrong with the wiring but breaking them (the metal brass that shares the hot and neutral) like that is not acceptable and it's on my own risk and he wouldn't do that. He would add additional receptacles. and leave the existing ones alone for the disposal.
 
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Old 08-10-14, 03:55 PM
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The switch on the combo is not suitable for 220 if both sides are hot and the amp rating isn't great enough anyway. As I wrote earlier you need a DPST (Double POLE Single Throw)switch. You won't find that in a combo. And you need a simplex 220 receptacle to go with it.
 
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Old 08-10-14, 03:57 PM
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You see I am not an electrician but I love electricity - what does it mean a dead short?
 
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Old 08-10-14, 03:59 PM
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what does it mean a dead short?
Flash>Boom!! A very low, essentially zero, resistance connection between the two side of the electric supply.
 
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Old 08-10-14, 04:03 PM
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A dead short is where a hot goes to a grounded object or another hot leg. Lots of sparks, bright flash and loud noises.
 
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Old 08-10-14, 04:14 PM
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Oh my God. Now, I am scared. Should I turn off the breaker for the disposal for now and leave the dishwasher till I find the dual voltage duplex receptacle? I am just gonna cancel the switch combo and leave switch for the disposal as is - one switch. ('cause I don't think they're available like Ray suggested.)

Now my question is the dual voltage duplex receptacle separated by the manufacturer or do i have to break the brass again. Or they're designed to be controlled by separate breaker. 'cause I will need a hot and a neutral controlled by a separate breaker for the disposal. Two hots for the dishwasher controlled by a separate breaker.
 
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Old 08-10-14, 04:34 PM
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Dear Ray,

The switch is 110v. It's the one controlling the disposal for the left side of the 220v receptacle in the picture. I didn't mess with the wiring with this one. I just replaced the single switch with the combo and cut the brass on both sides. The receptacle in the combo switch having the same current that goes to the dishwasher with same breaker. The disposal current is also on a separate breaker. That's why i cut both brasses on the duplex 220 receptacle and cut the ones on the combo. So each is being controlled by different wiring and different breakers.

I just wanted to clarify.

Thank you.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36266[/ATTACH]
 
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Old 08-10-14, 08:58 PM
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If you live in Saudi Arabia, why does your profile say you are in Michigan? Did I miss something?
 
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Old 08-11-14, 07:10 AM
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... 'cause I see a little spark in the combo switch receptacle when i power on/off the garbage disposal. The little spark appears in one hole of the outlet below the switch. ...
There will always be a spark at the switch contacts when the switch is flipped on or off. The faster the contacts come together or separate for a given voltage and current, the smaller the spark will be and generally the longer the contacts will last. (The spark upon turn off is usually larger) This is why old fashioned switches made a loud click when they were flipped.

The light of the spark happened to be most noticeable to you in one of the receptacle holes.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 03:57 PM
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Dear CasualJoe, I used to live in Michigan and my wife is American and from Michigan. Thank you for all your responses, guys. They've been very helpful. Just a note I did find the dual voltage for the duplex, but I still have to break off one brass on the hot side or else both will be sharing one hot. That's the 110 top section will be fed from one hot side of the 220 if I don't break it. I have to 'cause I want both to be on separate breakers. As for the switch combo, it doesn't exist as Ray suggested or at least not here in this country. I haven't seen them any where. So, I am just gonna cancel it and put back the single switch. Thank you all.
 
 

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