Power Vent Water Heater Electrical Question

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  #1  
Old 08-12-14, 01:50 PM
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Power Vent Water Heater Electrical Question

Does a power vent water heater need GFCI outlet in unfinished basement?

Would you install a disconnect switch in the same box as its outlet or does the outlet suffice as the disconnect?

It will be on a dedicated 20A circuit.
 
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  #2  
Old 08-12-14, 05:35 PM
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I don't see anything in the 2014NEC that would exempt you from installing GFCI protection for the power vent,it is in an unfinished basement.
Geo
 
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Old 08-13-14, 10:21 AM
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I would agree with Geochurchi, GFI protection is likely required. Though you shouldn't experience issues with false trips and such.

As for the disconnect, the cord and plug satisfy that requirement!

20A dedicated circuit is probably overkill too, 15A would have been fine... but certainly no issue with your plan.
 
  #4  
Old 08-26-14, 05:24 PM
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So everything appears fine with the new heater but the manual distinctly says "don't use GFI outlet"... I know I don't have a choice in the matter in regards to code.

Is there something about power vent water heaters and GFCI that I am missing? Do they not play well together?

If power was removed during a heating cycle, I assume the burner has a safety and would shut off correct?

I don't intend on changing the outlet or hardwiring unless there was an issue....
 
  #5  
Old 08-28-14, 04:35 AM
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why is it you think they would state don't connect to gfci?
 
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Old 08-28-14, 05:44 AM
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I have never seen a GFCI outlet at a powervent heater before...

What heater do you have that states no GFCI???
 
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Old 08-28-14, 06:34 AM
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Its a STATE power venter....

you never seen one plugged into a gfci? Then you never seen one in an unfinished basement?
 
  #8  
Old 08-28-14, 07:58 AM
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I serviced these units daily.. basement, closet, or where ever...

The issue is you installed a duplex outlet. The unit is supposed to be a single outlet dedicated line. As I know GFI is not required.

But I must admit if the code changed I may have missed it as I have not worked in new construction since 2009 or so.


I dont see nowhere in the manual that suggests no GFI, but I just breezed through it...

http://www.statewaterheaters.com/lit...315466-000.pdf

State is made buy AO smith..
 
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Old 08-28-14, 08:16 AM
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Electrical code....


110.3B

(B) Installation and Use.
Equipment must be installed and used in
accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling
requirements.


210.8(5)

GFCI protection is not required for receptacles that are not readily accessible, such as a ceiling-mounted receptacle for a garage door opener. Nor are they required for a receptacle on a dedicated branch circuit located and identified for a cord-and-plug-connected appliance, such as a refrigerator or freezer.

Hence why the outlets are installed in the ceiling or up high....and/or a dedicated circuit..
 
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Old 08-28-14, 08:35 AM
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The issue is you installed a duplex outlet. The unit is supposed to be a single outlet dedicated line. As I know GFI is not required.
The 2008 NEC requires all 125 volt 15 and 20 amp receptacles in an unfinished basement to be GFCI protected. The exception is a receptacle supplying only a permanently installed burglar alarm or fire alarm system is not required to be GFCI protected.

GFCI protection is not required for receptacles that are not readily accessible, such as a ceiling-mounted receptacle for a garage door opener. Nor are they required for a receptacle on a dedicated branch circuit located and identified for a cord-and-plug-connected appliance, such as a refrigerator or freezer.
This was changed in the 2008 NEC. Those locations all need GFCI protection now.
 
  #11  
Old 08-28-14, 09:47 AM
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Lawrosa- you have the wrong manual and the wrong version of the NEC.

My heater is GS650YBVIS and it does not mention anything about GFCI in the electrical requirements section however in the "facts to consider in locating the new heater" section it says "Do not use GFI outlet"....

So basically I am experimenting here for the sake of the NEC. However, does that mean if the GFCI trips while its heating will the vent/fan not run and allow the burners to continue to run causing a CO risk?

Im assuming if power is interrupted, their is a safety where the burner kicks off as well.
 
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Old 08-28-14, 10:59 AM
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The burner will not fire if the fan is not running. There is a pressure switch at the fan assembly..


Lawrosa- you have the wrong manual and the wrong version of the NEC.

This was changed in the 2008 NEC. Those locations all need GFCI protection now.

But I must admit if the code changed I may have missed it as I have not worked in new construction since 2009 or so.

I realize that.....

Is this part of the code active?????


Electrical code....


110.3B

(B) Installation and Use.
Equipment must be installed and used in
accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling
requirements.


And yes the manual says this...

5. Selected location must provide access to a properly
grounded electrical branch circuit. A dedicated circuit
is preferred. Do not use a GFI outlet


http://www.statewaterheaters.com/lit...Gas/324082.pdf
 
  #13  
Old 08-28-14, 11:21 AM
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The burner will not fire if the fan is not running. There is a pressure switch at the fan assembly..
Just to clarify, if the burners were firing and operating as normal... if you remove power the burners would turn off correct?

I guess I could go in the basement and remove power when its running but I don't want to intentionally give it a fault code.

Im still confused why a GFCI is not recommended... is something not functioning as it should since I have it plugged into a gfci?
 
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Old 08-28-14, 01:26 PM
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if you remove power the burners would turn off correct?
Correct..


Im still confused why a GFCI is not recommended

Probably from nuisance trips of the GFCI and possible damage to the expensive gas valve. Especially during lightning strikes..

All in all I would say yes you need a GFCI in an unfinished basement for the heater. Since the code was adapted these hard wire provisions may have been put in the heater directions now IDK..( See below in blue)

Do you follow the NEC or the manufacturers instruction? Technically you cant install a powervent in a unfinished basement without a GFCI unless you hard wire it.....



The power cord supplied may be used on
a unit only where local codes permit. If local codes do
not permit use of
flexible power supply cord:
a. Make sure the unit is unplugged from the wall
outlet. Remove the screw and open panel on the
front of the junction box on the blower.
b. Cut the
flexible power cord, leaving enough to be
able to make connections. Remove the strain relief
fitting from the box.
c. Install a suitable conduit
fitting inside the enclosure.
d. Splice field wiring into existing wiring using code
authorized method (wire nuts, etc).
e. Be certain that the neutral and line connections
are not reversed when making these connections.
f. Ground heater properly. This water heater must be
grounded in accordance with the National Electrical
Code NFPA 70 and/or local codes. These must be
followed in all cases. The water heater must be
connected to a grounded metal, permanent wiring
system or an equipment grounding conductor must
be run with the circuit conductors and connected
to the equipment grounding terminal or lead on the
water heater



And I would like to know if this code will allow you not to install a GFCI... Anyone???

110.3B

(B) Installation and Use.
Equipment must be installed and used in
accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling
requirements.








 

Last edited by lawrosa; 08-28-14 at 02:05 PM.
  #15  
Old 08-28-14, 01:39 PM
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Of course in the end it all comes down to the AHJ. If it isn't being inspected then go with hard wired and you don't have an NEC violation. </opinion>
 
  #16  
Old 08-29-14, 07:47 AM
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I realize that.....

Is this part of the code active?????


Electrical code....


110.3B

(B) Installation and Use.
Equipment must be installed and used in
accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling
requirements.

And yes the manual says this...

5. Selected location must provide access to a properly
grounded electrical branch circuit. A dedicated circuit
is preferred. Do not use a GFI outlet
In my opinion, that phrase in the NEC wasn't meant to supercede NEC requirements. I think if I were the OP I would contact the manufacturer and ask them why they recommend not using a GFCI receptacle in view of the fact the NEC requires it's use. I didn't see a date on the online manual, does the printed manual have a date prior to the 2008 NEC?

ALL TECHNICAL AND WARRANTY QUESTIONS: SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO THE LOCAL DEALER FROM WHOM THE WATER HEATER WAS
PURCHASED. IF YOU ARE UNSUCCESSFUL, PLEASE CONTACT THE COMPANY LISTED ON THE RATING PLATE ON THE WATER HEATER.
OR......consult the AHJ and possibly hardwire it with an appropriate disconnect.
 
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