Single gang / double switch issue
#1
Single gang / double switch issue
My head is about to explode. I'm no stranger to electrical wiring stuff and when I have an issue, it's usually something stupid that I just didn't notice and I'm hoping that's what this is, because I can't figure out the problem.
Due to a lack of space between two studs, I only have room for a single gang junction box, yet I need to have two switches, one to control a chandelier in the dining room and one to control an exterior flood light. After putting it off for a while, I finally ran some an extra wire into the junction box last night. I also had to switch out the wire that was supplying my chandelier (for the last few months up until yesterday, I had to controlled by the same switch as the kitchen lights),so that wire is new as well. For some reason, whenever I have the receptacle hooked up, it trips the breaker and I can't figure out why. As I'll show in my pictures, the black wire is the power supply and the each yellow goes to its own light source. The black wire from the feeder wire is connected to the line (black) screw on the receptacle and the black lines from each yellow wire are connected to the load (brass) screws, the three white wires are connected together, as are the ground wires (with a pigtail to the ground screw on the receptacle).
Everything I've found online shows that my setup should be correct, I'm going crazy. Please help me find the place where I've stupidly jacked something up and just haven't noticed.
Due to a lack of space between two studs, I only have room for a single gang junction box, yet I need to have two switches, one to control a chandelier in the dining room and one to control an exterior flood light. After putting it off for a while, I finally ran some an extra wire into the junction box last night. I also had to switch out the wire that was supplying my chandelier (for the last few months up until yesterday, I had to controlled by the same switch as the kitchen lights),so that wire is new as well. For some reason, whenever I have the receptacle hooked up, it trips the breaker and I can't figure out why. As I'll show in my pictures, the black wire is the power supply and the each yellow goes to its own light source. The black wire from the feeder wire is connected to the line (black) screw on the receptacle and the black lines from each yellow wire are connected to the load (brass) screws, the three white wires are connected together, as are the ground wires (with a pigtail to the ground screw on the receptacle).
Everything I've found online shows that my setup should be correct, I'm going crazy. Please help me find the place where I've stupidly jacked something up and just haven't noticed.
#2
Member
It looks like the twisted ground wires are awful close to the connection on the lower side, could they possibly be touching or arcing? Secondly, have you checked with a meter to be sure that the white cable is where your feed is coming from? How old is your home? Only newer ones have neutrals in all of their switch boxes.
#5
While waiting on further info I will say the grounds need a wire nut to keep the connection secure.
Last edited by ray2047; 08-16-14 at 07:33 PM. Reason: wire but > wire nut
#6
Thanks so much for responding! Sorry for the delay, I was at work. I'll try to answer all of the questions:
I've only tested it and had the breaker trip as you see it (not putting everything back in the box) so nothing is touching that's not supposed to. I'm going to make everything more secure once I know I've got it set up correctly and it's working. (I've already taken it apart about three times to triple check that indeed the feeder wire is in fact the feeder wire and that neither of the yellow ones is carrying any power of their own). The house was built in 1978 and the black feeder wire was previously there, both yellows are brand new, but all of the house's wiring has had neutrals thus far.
"If you know which cables go where... disconnect black and white wire going to chandelier (cap them off), leave everything else as is and see if flood light works."
Good idea, I was going to do that today, but ran out of time.
I've only tested it and had the breaker trip as you see it (not putting everything back in the box) so nothing is touching that's not supposed to. I'm going to make everything more secure once I know I've got it set up correctly and it's working. (I've already taken it apart about three times to triple check that indeed the feeder wire is in fact the feeder wire and that neither of the yellow ones is carrying any power of their own). The house was built in 1978 and the black feeder wire was previously there, both yellows are brand new, but all of the house's wiring has had neutrals thus far.
"If you know which cables go where... disconnect black and white wire going to chandelier (cap them off), leave everything else as is and see if flood light works."
Good idea, I was going to do that today, but ran out of time.
#7
"While waiting on further info I will say the grounds need a wire nut to keep the connection secure."
Definitely! This is kind of a "let's make sure everything works before I secure everything and put it away," sort of thing.
Definitely! This is kind of a "let's make sure everything works before I secure everything and put it away," sort of thing.
#8
I've already taken it apart about three times to triple check that indeed the feeder wire is in fact the feeder wire and that neither of the yellow ones is carrying any power of their own
Does Chandelier have only one cable in box?
Does Flood Light have only one cable?
The quote above.... Please separate all three cables again and check for voltage.
This time, using a meter:
Check Black to White, Black to Ground, and White to Ground, on each cable....
#9
The flood light and chandelier both only have one cable. I'll separate and check for voltage in a bit (I have to take the kids to the grocery store).
Thanks so much for your help!
Thanks so much for your help!
#10
Multimeter results
Ok, sorry for the delay. I've been single parenting for the last few days and every time I'd get out my multi-meter, a child would act up.
Anyhoo, here are my results: 120v from hot (black wire from black cable) to ground and hot to neutral (white wire from black cable), nothing from the black wires that come from the yellow cables and nothing from neutral (white from black cable) to ground. I get about 25v when I test from hot (black from black cable) to whites from the yellow cables.
Thoughts?
Anyhoo, here are my results: 120v from hot (black wire from black cable) to ground and hot to neutral (white wire from black cable), nothing from the black wires that come from the yellow cables and nothing from neutral (white from black cable) to ground. I get about 25v when I test from hot (black from black cable) to whites from the yellow cables.
Thoughts?
#11
You have three cables. Treat each cable separately and check from white to black.
I'm not sure how the receptacle you mention fits in the picture here.
Your wiring there looks correct.
I'm not sure how the receptacle you mention fits in the picture here.
Your wiring there looks correct.
#14
When I tested today, I tested with the power on and the wires separated. I guess I could see if it trips with the switches turned off, I don't recall if I tried it that way. I'll report back in the morning. Thanks!
#15
So I decided to replace the black cable with a new piece of cable, in case that was the issue (since its age was unknown). I also switched the feed to a different circuit to see if that was somehow the issue.
I just reconnected the switch and turned the power on (with the switches off) and it didn't trip. As soon as I flipped a switch, it tripped. Argh! I don't know why this is happening. I ordered another different switch, just in case.
I just reconnected the switch and turned the power on (with the switches off) and it didn't trip. As soon as I flipped a switch, it tripped. Argh! I don't know why this is happening. I ordered another different switch, just in case.
#16
Trying to understand this thread. You wrote:
Receptacles don't have black screws. Do you mean brass screws?
At the receptacle do you have three cables? If so remove the receptacle, wire nut the three blacks together and wire nut the three whites together. Does the breaker still trip?
The black wire from the feeder wire is connected to the line (black) screw on the receptacle
At the receptacle do you have three cables? If so remove the receptacle, wire nut the three blacks together and wire nut the three whites together. Does the breaker still trip?
#17
Check the 1st picture, some gfcis and this double-gang switch have black screws for the LINE side of the receptacle.
Anyway, I figured it out! Turns out that a neutral wire had come loose on the chandelier (not in the junction box, where I had been looking, but by the bulb) and was laying on the hot wire, thus causing the tripping. I knew it had to be something stupid!
Now I'm off to take some pix/post about this other 3-way switch that I somehow jacked up when I replaced it a few months ago. I'll be back soon.
Thanks for the help!
Anyway, I figured it out! Turns out that a neutral wire had come loose on the chandelier (not in the junction box, where I had been looking, but by the bulb) and was laying on the hot wire, thus causing the tripping. I knew it had to be something stupid!
Now I'm off to take some pix/post about this other 3-way switch that I somehow jacked up when I replaced it a few months ago. I'll be back soon.
Thanks for the help!
#18
The black wire from the feeder wire is connected to the line (black) screw on the receptacle and the black lines from each yellow wire are connected to the load (brass) screws
By receptacle I think OP means stacked switch.
OP, Look at picture above, img_6265.jpg. One Cable sheathing looks Black and you said Black cable was your source power. If so... I blew up photo and this hot wire is not connected to common screw, it's connected to load. The source hot wire needs to go to one of the black screws.
Move the black that's there now to the other side.
#20
Ray,
By receptacle I think OP means stacked switch
By receptacle I think OP means stacked switch
#21
Sorry, I'm not down on all of the vocabulary. I guess I thought "receptacle" referred to whatever was "receiving"the power inside the junction box. Oh well... live and learn.
Anyway, it's working now. I appreciate the assistance.
p.s. I'm a lady.
Anyway, it's working now. I appreciate the assistance.
p.s. I'm a lady.
Last edited by mrowmrow; 08-22-14 at 08:28 PM.