What is in this breaker box?

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Old 08-25-14, 11:26 AM
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What is in this breaker box?

So, I have had some work done to my house. When they installed our AC unit (never was one there) they added this box. The other 2 breakers are also being used.

So, other than what is being used in there now, is that ok?
If so, can a new bar be put inside so I can add 2 more breakers to the panel??

The box has the cutouts for 8 breaker switches, only 4 are visible, well, because all they put in was enough for what they were doing.

I'm trying to do this on a budget. So I want to re-use as much as possible and buy as few parts as I need to. If that is not possible, back to square 1.



Thanks!
Matt
 
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Old 08-25-14, 11:36 AM
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I think the Pro's will need more details. What is the size of the wire being used for the feed? What size is the breaker that supplies this panel from the main panel. What is the brand/model of this panel? And finally, what kind of loads to you intend to add to the new breakers?
 
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Old 08-25-14, 11:52 AM
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Is your main breaker panel full? Please post a picture of your main breaker panel with the cover off. How close is this to the main breaker panel.
The box has the cutouts for 8 breaker switches,
They are breakers not breaker switches. Often the same cover is used on multiple model number boxes and the number of knock outs does not mean much. Yours is most likely a two space 60 amp panel. (Two 120 volt breakers or one 240 breaker fits in each space.) Panel model number would be helpful.
 
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Old 08-25-14, 01:28 PM
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can a new bar be put inside so I can add 2 more breakers to the panel??
I think to add more circuits you'll have to replace that subpanel with a larger one, it is now full.
 
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Old 08-25-14, 03:35 PM
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Yes, you will need to install a larger sub panel. Is this on the the outside of the house?
 
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Old 08-25-14, 04:46 PM
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Are there 8 knockouts or just space for 8 circuits to be labeled on the directory? I suspect that panel might take 4 single pole tandems for a total of 8 circuits.
 
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Old 08-25-14, 05:10 PM
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You should be able to change the right two breaker to tandems and pick up two more circuits.

My mistake.... I had a letter incorrect. It is a Nema 1 panel however it still falls under the Eaton name. Say's Eaton/Cutler Hammer. I couldn't find a listing for that same panel that took CH breakers.

As far as I can tell there are still some tandem CH breakers CHT1515 and the CHT2020 around.
 

Last edited by PJmax; 08-25-14 at 07:26 PM. Reason: correct a Whoops.
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Old 08-25-14, 06:09 PM
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Based on the screw holes for the cover that is not a 3R rated panel. It does look like it might be on stucco and if so it needs to be changed if outside.
 
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Old 08-25-14, 06:51 PM
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That Eaton BR48L125RP panel is fed by #6's.
You can change the right two breakers to doubles and pick up two more circuits.
That isn't an Eaton BR series panel, it's a CH series panel, note the tan colored breaker handles and the trip indicator on the 25 amp 2 pole breaker. BR series breakers all have black handles and do not have the trip indicator. It's hard to tell from the picture, but the panel box is also tan colored. As I recall, there are no CH series tandem CTL breakers, just non-CTL tandem breakers, but I am going by memory and have not consulted a Cutler-Hammer catalog. I still say the subpanel will have to be changed.

You can also tell it is not a NEMA 3R panel for outside use not only by the screw holes noted by PCboss, but by the concentric knockouts on the sides and back. It's a NEMA 1 panel for indoor use.
 
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Old 08-26-14, 07:01 AM
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Thanks everyone. I'll try and cover all the questions. Please forgive me, electrical is not my bag. And also, I'm not doing the work. I have a friend who can do the work. I figured, I would ask somewhere online just to double check and see if I can find the parts, we did an initial search at Menards and didn't find anything really that helpful.

This is inside, I have one free opening in the other panel. I will get more pictures today of this and the other panel and the panel numbers and anything else you guys would need.

The reason for the addition is my aquarium keeps getting more and more legs on the octopus of wires... So, my buddy is going to install a 20 amp - 4-gang gfci in the fish-room, so everything can be wired on one 20 amp circuit, or 2 gangs can be on one circuit and the other 2 on the other circuit. It's all going to be new wiring, 14-3 NM-B. I have powerbars/surge protectors with 15 amp fuses, so that will be the first place of failure. We haven't yet went thru and add them all up, plus I'm going to take into account future upgrading.
Right now, all my tank controls are on 3 different outlets and you don't want to know how many cords altogether are plugged in. This is why I am doing this project before any other upgrades. I've been tempting fate by not making this first priority in the beginning.

We have thought about the tandem breakers. That might be a way to go, if for some reason this doesn't work. However, I think if I can't get the insides of this box retrofitted, I'll just buy a new box at menards and be done with it. My buddy also said that he has no problem doing that either, he's done that before as well.
I also know that my ground bar would need to be bigger as there are no more spots for ground. But that part is easy to find...

Thanks everyone!!
 

Last edited by zestysteve; 08-26-14 at 07:02 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 08-26-14, 07:23 AM
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You will need #12 for 20 amp circuits.
 
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Old 08-26-14, 07:51 AM
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thanks! I'm glad I signed up here!
 
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Old 08-26-14, 08:11 AM
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As I recall, there are no CH series tandem CTL breakers, just non-CTL tandem breakers, but I am going by memory and have not consulted a Cutler-Hammer catalog
Well, checked an online catalog and I was wrong, Type CHT tandem breakers are the CTL type and would work IF the panel will accept tandem breakers. IF it will, the OP can pick up 2 circuits from his subpanel.
 
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Old 08-26-14, 08:20 AM
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So OP should look at panel label to see if it lists CHT
Eaton 20 Amp 0.73 in. 2-Pole CH Type Twin Breaker-CHT2020 at The Home Depot

Also - if you read the label it should say that you can double-up wires but only with the grounding bar.
 
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Old 08-26-14, 01:28 PM
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Old 08-26-14, 06:58 PM
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ok, here is the rest of it. Thanks!




 
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Old 08-26-14, 07:01 PM
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That directory is for the 8 circuits that could be installed if tandems were used.

You could pick up two spots if single pole tandems were used for the basement and sump pump circuits on the right.
 
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Old 08-26-14, 08:12 PM
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Good equipment, but bad decision on the part of the contractor to add such a small panel. They got the job done and powered your new a-c equipment, but also put you in a real bind for adding future new circuits. I think I'd replace the subpanel with no less than a 16 circuit of the same CH series from Cutler-Hammer.
 
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Old 08-27-14, 03:48 AM
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They added just enough to get their job done. Perhaps expansion was not discussed or wasn't in the budget.

I would have installed the AC circuit in the main panel and moved two smaller circuits to the sub.
 
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Old 08-27-14, 06:35 AM
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They added just enough to get their job done. Perhaps expansion was not discussed or wasn't in the budget.
That would be my guess too. Someone wasn't paying attention when they first looked at the job and gave a quote. That being said, there would have been less expensive options than the CH series subpanel.
 
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Old 08-27-14, 03:00 PM
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Thanks guys! I think I am comfortable with what I need to do now.
Budget allowing, I'm probably going to go the CHT2020 route. Or I could go with two CHT2020s and put the sump/disposal on one 2020 section and then have another 2020 section for what I need and then an extra section in case I need more.
 
  #22  
Old 08-27-14, 08:07 PM
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YOU CAN BUY A 3/4 inch breaker with 2 20 amp circuits in one 3/4 inch space..(also 15's)

do this twice and you will have room for a full size 2pole breaker

in the box on the right
 
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Old 08-27-14, 11:43 PM
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YOU CAN BUY A 3/4 inch breaker with 2 20 amp circuits in one 3/4 inch space..(also 15's)

do this twice and you will have room for a full size 2pole breaker

in the box on the right
The larger panel may not be listed for use with tandems. The use of tandems would need to be confirmed by checking the label, not just assumed and as such the OP should not be told to make a possible code violation.
 
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Old 08-28-14, 06:44 AM
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This is inside the main panel. Is this the part numbers you were talking about?
 
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Old 08-28-14, 06:57 AM
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no that is only for the outer box part number. Look at the white label on the right side. Should list box catalog number as well as permitted breaker types there.
 
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Old 08-28-14, 08:01 AM
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Thank you, I will check that!
 
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