Old fpe breaker box...

Reply

  #1  
Old 08-27-14, 11:23 AM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Old fpe breaker box...

Old fpe breaker panel...no main
Please help, the 30a 2 pole breaker is for my electric dryer. Both poles read 120 + individually but 0 across...(with an error in meter of exceeds limit) same reading at plug and on dryer when plugged in. Main lines are 240+ across. When appliance not wired to breaker same readings at the breaker. Simple as get a new breaker?
Also how safe is working in the box that is this style, and furthermore what style panel is this (fpe I know but the style or type, not brand)
Non electrician here, obviously. Thanks in advance.
**Can't seem to see where to upload pictures on mobile site....but have and will upload as soon as I figure it out
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 08-27-14, 11:25 AM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,144
Received 83 Votes on 71 Posts
  #3  
Old 08-27-14, 11:31 AM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks that's not for the mobile site/version...but the URL option will work just didn't want to go that route if didn't have to
 
  #4  
Old 08-27-14, 11:42 AM
pugsl's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 9,003
Received 71 Votes on 64 Posts
Unplug dryer and read across terminals and what is reading. Should be 240 than.
 
  #5  
Old 08-27-14, 11:47 AM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I did that...that's what I meant by appliance not wired....still got a 0 reading.
 
  #6  
Old 08-27-14, 02:48 PM
Geochurchi's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 4,744
Received 66 Votes on 62 Posts
Can you check across the mains in the panel ? should be 2 lugs that supply that panel.
Geo
 
  #7  
Old 08-27-14, 05:12 PM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yes did that. They are right at or but above 240....just put new breaker in. Same result. Could be the wiring to the outlet? Doesn't make sense if I tested breaker unwired.
 
  #8  
Old 08-27-14, 05:20 PM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Just noticed my ground (bare wire) is not connected to anything. I only have one bar for neutral or ground...my white wire goes into it. Should my ground wire also?? Would this not being hooked up prevent a circuit?
 
  #9  
Old 08-27-14, 05:41 PM
Geochurchi's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 4,744
Received 66 Votes on 62 Posts
The bare bond wire should be attached directly to the can,the white neutral should be in a buss bar isolated from the can,this is not your voltage problem,can you move the new breaker to a different position in the panel and check it there? FPE dose not have the best reputation in the industry.
Geo
 
  #10  
Old 08-27-14, 06:01 PM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I moved it to another spot. Only 4 spots for 2 post. 2 on top two on bottom....one hot bar running horizontal (8 terminals total) no main....
 
  #11  
Old 08-27-14, 06:05 PM
J
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: usa
Posts: 279
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
FPE does not have the best reputation in the industry.
It has a copper bus!!!! better than ANY aluminium bus panel.



What circuit number is the 2pole 30?

is anything else not working?


have you turned every breaker off and on?
 
  #12  
Old 08-27-14, 06:12 PM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The buses don't look copper they are silver in color but I don't know....currently have only the 2 pole 30 amp breaker in and 2 wide 20 amp breakers in. Before pulled others had all off then on again. Not sure exactly where to get circuit number off breaker....UBIF-0230N ?
 
  #13  
Old 08-27-14, 06:15 PM
J
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: usa
Posts: 279
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I moved it to another spot. Only 4 spots for 2 post. 2 on top two on bottom....one hot bar running horizontal (8 terminals total) no main....
ARE THE LINE LUGS ON THE FAR RIGHT AND THE OTHER ONE IS ON THE FAR LEFT.

4 spaces top....4 spaces bottom............

is the 4 left breakers one phase and the 4 right breakers the second phase

so the only correct location for a 2pole breaker may be the center 2 spaces on the top or the center 2 spaces on the bottom.
 
  #14  
Old 08-27-14, 06:20 PM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yes the line lugs are as you said. And yes only 4 possible spots for 2 pole as I see it. But I see now the bar isn't solid....so all "double" (like a two pole) slots are either right side or left....like there is no way to get 240??

C/N 116457
Number off the tag on the new breaker....C/N = circuit number?
 
  #15  
Old 08-27-14, 06:24 PM
J
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: usa
Posts: 279
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
UBIF-0230N...............this is a thin 2pole30......if you plug it in place of a wide 1pole breaker you will have the same phase on both legs(screws)...not 220

this breaker must replace 2 full size 1pole breaers in the center with a thin (1/2 inch)115 or 120 breaker on its right and left.
 
  #16  
Old 08-27-14, 06:29 PM
J
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: usa
Posts: 279
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
so the only correct location for a 2pole breaker may be the center 2 spaces on the top or the center 2 spaces on the bottom.
 
  #17  
Old 08-27-14, 06:37 PM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I think I understand. The way it is divided I'm assuming there are no 2 pole breakers that split to fit over the plastic middle in order to hit left and right side power....
Correct?
So now u say 2 thin 115 or 120 single pole one on left one on right ...then run my 4 wire how....hot to each and ground and neutral as normal? This is ok.....
 
  #18  
Old 08-27-14, 06:47 PM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
  #19  
Old 08-27-14, 06:53 PM
J
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: usa
Posts: 279
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
place the 2pole 30 on the top in the center ..this will give you 220

replace the two full size 1pole 20's with thin (1/2 inch wide) 1pole 20's
 
  #20  
Old 08-27-14, 07:02 PM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Getting dark have everything back in box sans 2 pole 30a....here is a drawing. No "center" spot....left and right separated by the hard plastic case around the horizontal bus....

https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/...45110264_o.jpg
 
  #21  
Old 08-27-14, 07:07 PM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Sorry drawing shows two 2 pole on left and right side top and bottom...there is 1 per side top and bottom for 4 total with another 4 single spots (1 per side top and bottom)
 
  #22  
Old 08-27-14, 07:32 PM
J
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: usa
Posts: 279
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
i would expect the 230 thin to fit in the center ...it should have a small slot in the center

a full size 2pole 30 amp breaker has a larger slot and should fit on the center OK

REPLACE THE 2 1POLE 20'S WITH THIN 1POLE20' AND PUT THEM WHERE THE 230 IS NOW
 
  #23  
Old 08-27-14, 11:01 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 58,501
Received 1,029 Votes on 955 Posts
I would make a recommendation into looking into changing the panel soon. The Federal breakers have a problem tripping with age. Your panel is not only old and outside but it's a subpanel being used as a main panel. The NEC code only allows 6 handles with no main.... but more important than that is if one of your breakers doesn't trip when it is supposed to you have NO backup protection. Your circuit will be connected directly to the power company with no way to open it.

Please note..... this is not an open invitation to start the FPE debate on panel longevity.
 
  #24  
Old 08-27-14, 11:54 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,144
Received 83 Votes on 71 Posts
Panels typically have both buses on both sides that alternate ABAB top to bottom. They are not one bus on the left and the other on the right.

The OP would do well to look at replacing the FPE equipment. It was not a great design when new with the small contact area between the breaker stab and the bus.

A 120/240 panel in the US is a single phase system with 2 hots and a center tapped neutral.
 
  #25  
Old 08-28-14, 05:37 AM
Geochurchi's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 4,744
Received 66 Votes on 62 Posts
That's reply possible!
Sorry but what dose OP stand for? (Other person)?
Geo
 
  #26  
Old 08-28-14, 06:35 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Geo, OP (O/P) stands for Original Poster, the person who stated the thread.
 
  #27  
Old 08-28-14, 07:59 AM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 10,638
Received 83 Votes on 73 Posts
the 30a 2 pole breaker is for my electric dryer. Both poles read 120 + individually but 0 across...(with an error in meter of exceeds limit) same reading at plug and on dryer when plugged in.
Did the dryer ever work? If it did, something/someone has changed the position of the breakers.

Best option is to replace the panel with a new modern code compliant panel.

If you must continue with this panel, it's not rocket science. Remove the 20A GFCI breaker and move the 30A 2P breaker to the right 1/2 space, now it should provide 240 volts (not 220). Now, add a 20A thin style single pole breaker to each side of the 30A breaker. One can be used to feed a GFCI device external to the panel for the GFCI load and the other will fill the space in the cover and will be a spare breaker. What you will spend on breakers will be close to the price of a new panel.
 
  #28  
Old 08-28-14, 08:04 AM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 10,638
Received 83 Votes on 73 Posts
FPE does not have the best reputation in the industry.
It has a copper bus!!!! better than ANY aluminium bus panel.
I also prefer a copper bus, but a known fire hazard with copper bus is of no value at all to me.
 
  #29  
Old 08-28-14, 04:29 PM
Geochurchi's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 4,744
Received 66 Votes on 62 Posts
It also look's like there is a number 12 on that single pole 30,change the panel out and at the same time all the wiring can be neaten up.
Just my opinion.
Geo
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: