240VAC on my stove does not work when plugged in


  #1  
Old 09-22-14, 05:12 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 7
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
240VAC on my stove does not work when plugged in

Hi,
I have a cooking range with dual oven by Frigidaire that runs off a 240 VAC, 40 AMP circuit that was working fine until I tried to turn on the oven on my range oven. When I did, it tripped the breaker. I tripped the breaker back on (actually tried this multiple times with multiple intervals, 1 min, 15 mins 1 day,7 days ...) but the range was dead i.e. the display panel on the range does not turn on.

some background-
- It has worked fine for the last 2 years, although I never used the bottomw oven of the dual oven, only the top one. this is the first time we tried the bottom oven.
- the house is only 2 years old, new wiring, 200 AMP panel.

Here is what I have done so far.
- replaced the 40AMP breaker - no chnage
- Checked the voltage on the breaker and the socket and I see the correct voltage ONLY when I unplug the Range Oven from the 4 prong socket. If I connect the range oven plug in the socket, the voltage drops to 0VAC from 240 VAC.
- I have a dryer on 240V that works fine and is on a separate 30AMP 240VAC breaker/socket.

I read someone on this site had a similar problem and changed the main breaker that solved the problem. I'm willing to try that but in this case, if it was the main breaker, why would the dryer work and not the range oven?

Please help. thanks.
-
 
  #2  
Old 09-22-14, 05:39 PM
A
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 4,560
Upvotes: 0
Received 285 Upvotes on 260 Posts
Flip off the breakers (two of them, or a single handle on a double wide breaker unit) for this circuit.

Disassemble the receptacle (socket) and check for a loose connection in back.

Also check for loose connections in the panel where the wires for this circuit are attached to the breakers.
 
  #3  
Old 09-22-14, 05:58 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 7
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
sorry, I forgot to say that I did undo and put back all the wires at the socket and the breaker as well. no difference
 
  #4  
Old 09-22-14, 06:06 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 65,451
Received 4,051 Upvotes on 3,634 Posts
....that was working fine until I tried to turn on the oven on my range oven. When I did, it tripped the breaker.
That tells us right from the start that you DO NOT have a wiring problem.
Don't keep trying to turn on the oven or you will destroy the control board. The boards and relays are somewhat fragile and a dead short could damage it.

You didn't mention if the broiler element was working ok. I'll assume it is.
You will need to turn off power to the range and disconnect the bottom element. You can check the element for a short with an ohmmeter. You can also check that the element ends are not touching ground/metal where they pass thru the rear of the oven.
 
  #5  
Old 09-22-14, 06:11 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 7
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
this is my summer home so I will get you the answer when Im back there (on an Island) in the next week or 2. Im just trying to gather all suggestions before I make a 3 hr trip. I will also buy an analog multimeter
 
  #6  
Old 09-22-14, 06:17 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 29,711
Upvotes: 0
Received 15 Upvotes on 13 Posts
Please disregard my original post and follow PJs advice. When you buy an analog multimeter you don't need to spend more than $15 for one.
 
  #7  
Old 09-22-14, 06:19 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 7
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
PJmax I had unplugged the 2 wires going to the bottom element. I didn't check the resistance on the element but what I did is to keep it disconnected, thinking there was a short and tried to turn the range on. I still didnt get any power to the panel. One thing though, at one point I plugged the plug in to the socket while the power was on, and I heard the panel come alive for a second, then a small arc behind the socket and everything went dead.
 
  #8  
Old 09-23-14, 05:19 AM
A
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 4,560
Upvotes: 0
Received 285 Upvotes on 260 Posts
Was this small arc before or after you inspected the wires behind the receptacle?

After the small arc, was the receptacle registering zero volts both with and without the stove plugged in?

When the small arc happened, was that the last time there was any sign of life?

Are there other receptacles or appliances on this branch circuit?

Now, it is possible that the receptacle itself is bad where no amount of tightening of the wires behind it would help.
 
  #9  
Old 09-23-14, 08:14 AM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 65,451
Received 4,051 Upvotes on 3,634 Posts
When you get your meter it may be better to make your voltage measurements at the wiring junction box at the back of the range. This will eliminate a plug/receptacle issue.

The control board may be damaged now.

alan... this is an electric range... should be on it's own dedicated circuit.
 
  #10  
Old 09-23-14, 02:28 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 7
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
AllanJ -
[ Was this small arc before or after you inspected the wires behind the receptacle?
- I had seen the small arc after and sometime before as well. My son had seen the same kind of arc at the panel where the 40 amp breaker, one of the reasons I put the new breaker in.
-

[After the small arc, was the receptacle registering zero volts both with and without the stove plugged in?]
Frankly, I couldn't check the voltage inside the receptacle, the way I did it was to use the multimeter on the screws of the screws of the receptacle once I removed it from the wall.

[When the small arc happened, was that the last time there was any sign of life?
no, it wasnt the last time, it was dead before I saw the arc

[Are there other receptacles or appliances on this branch circuit?]
I would say no, I haven't seen anything on it. I can ask the electrician who installed it.

[Now, it is possible that the receptacle itself is bad where no amount of tightening of the wires behind it would help.
I'm willing to give that a try. I will go to HD and get a new one to try it out.

One question, Is there a "load" I can put a "dummy load" on the 240VAC receptacle to check if it is working. For e.g. I could plug a test bulb in to a 120V , is there something similar for an oven receptacle?

I truly appreciate everyone's help here to solve this issue. This is a quick Thank You, although still tryng to figure out other things I could do to solve the issue
 

Last edited by PJmax; 09-23-14 at 05:27 PM. Reason: Remove referer links.
  #11  
Old 09-23-14, 02:33 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 7
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
When you get your meter it may be better to make your voltage measurements at the wiring junction box at the back of the range. This will eliminate a plug/receptacle issue.
I tried the voltage on the wire junction box and it is 0VAC when plugged in. I even tried to take the wires off the junction box to test if there was a wire problem , but really wasn't successful as I didn't have a socket set and the nuts were screwed on VERY tightly.

The control board may be damaged now.
you are probably right but I haven't seen or no burning smells on the circuit boards.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 09-23-14 at 02:59 PM. Reason: Remove referer link.
  #12  
Old 09-23-14, 05:06 PM
A
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 4,560
Upvotes: 0
Received 285 Upvotes on 260 Posts
Incidentally you can build a "quick test" jig with light bulbs for a 240 volt circuit.

Mount two lamp sockets (perhaps porcelain units) on a small board. Connect them in series, i.e. a short length (pigtail) from gold terminal of one to silver terminal of the other and the two test leads to the remaining two terminals. Screw in two 120 volt incandescent bulbs of the same wattage.

When the test leads are touched to locations or terminals with 120 volts between them the bulbs will be dim. For 240 volts the bulbs will be at "full" brightness.

You could connect the test leads to a matching plug instead of pointed probes or alligator clips for the purpose of testing the spring contacts inside a suspected bad receptacle.

This tester only checks for presence or absence of the correct voltage. You cannot draw conclusions of there are other defects involving random in between voltages; a meter is needed for those kinds of test.
 
  #13  
Old 09-23-14, 05:31 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 65,451
Received 4,051 Upvotes on 3,634 Posts
- Checked the voltage on the breaker and the socket and I see the correct voltage ONLY when I unplug the Range Oven from the 4 prong socket. If I connect the range oven plug in the socket, the voltage drops to 0VAC from 240 VAC.
Sorry.... I missed this earlier...... if plugging your range in and not having anything turned on causes the voltage to go from 240vac to 0vac at the breaker then you have a breaker or buss problem.
 
  #14  
Old 10-18-14, 04:25 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 7
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Found the problem - faulty relay on the power/control board

All,
First of all, thank you everyone for helping me debug this issue.

The issue is a faulty power/relay board that feeds 240V to the entire oven. It seems that the relay that controls the Oven #2 is faulty and probably shorted which pulls down the circuit and gives 0VAC.

Here is how I debugged the problem. Not all steps are shown as you will go crazy reading this. The power circuitry works just fine.

- Connected only the 120V to the range. i.e. only connected the red and white wires to the range. The stove tops started working, but the dual ovens were still not working as the main clock/control panel looked like it was dead.

I replaced the main clock/control panel with a new one, and connected back the 240V, still no difference. This is where I decided to trace the power circuitry. I kept the 240V connected and disconnected the power going in to the 240 relay/power board, the stove tops started working, but still no main board or dual oven.

I then disconnected the power going on to the relay/power board that controlled the oven #2, keeping the oven #1 connected.

This lit up the main board and everything is working fine, expect offcourse the oven #2. I will replace the board or just the couple of relays and that should do it.

that was some painful debugging but I have all the cook tops, and one oven of the dual oven system working. BTW, I could not see ANY physical signs on the power/relay board of the relays been burnt out.
 
  #15  
Old 10-18-14, 04:31 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 65,451
Received 4,051 Upvotes on 3,634 Posts
The issue is a faulty power/relay board that feeds 240V to the entire oven. It seems that the relay that controls the Oven #2 is faulty and probably shorted which pulls down the circuit and gives 0VAC.
I'm not sure how you fixed it but your description of the operation of the unit is incorrect.

The power/control board does not feed 240v to the entire oven. The elements are connected directly to one half of the 240vac line. The control board supplies the other half of the 240vac line. The control board runs entirely on 120vac.

In your case.... the half of the 240vac line that feeds the board was dead.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: