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Cloth Covered Two-Wire and NM w/Ground in Same Junction Box

Cloth Covered Two-Wire and NM w/Ground in Same Junction Box

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  #1  
Old 09-26-14, 03:40 PM
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Cloth Covered Two-Wire and NM w/Ground in Same Junction Box

I'm in the middle of a remodel. A wall was removed and the wires through the wall were rerouted through the attic by the contractor. The old, cloth covered two-wire cable was used where ever possible. There is a short stint between two junction boxes where new 14/2 Romex was used. The ground wire in the Romex has nothing to connect to on either end.

The inspector said the ground wire must be connected to any other ground and suggested running cable to another branch circuit solely for grounding.

Does this sound right? Can someone point me to the NEC requirement for this? Also, I'm very wary of having cable run from on branch circuit to another even if it's only for ground.

I'm in San Jose, CA: CEC 2013 (NEC 2011)
Thanks!
 
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  #2  
Old 09-26-14, 05:04 PM
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It was a code violation for the contractor to extend ungrounded cable. On his dime he needs to come back and do this correctly, run new cable all the way from the breaker box and abandon the existing cable.
The inspector said the ground wire must be connected to any other ground and suggested running cable to another branch circuit solely for grounding.
You got lucky with a very lenient inspector. You can run a separate ground wire as he said but the NEC says it must come from the main panel or be connected to the GEC* within five feet of the main panel.

*GEC: The conductor between the main panel and grounding electrode (water pipe or ground rod) the main panel is grounded to.
 
  #3  
Old 09-26-14, 06:22 PM
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Thank you kindly for the prompt response.

Is there any chance you could point me to a section in the NEC pertaining to this? I've been searching (and will continue to do so) for something regarding extending existing out-of-code circuits. So far, I've had no luck.

I'm sure I'll have a much more pleasant conversation with the contractor if I can backup requests with specific code references.

Thanks again!
 
  #4  
Old 09-26-14, 06:56 PM
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No extensions may be made to older wiring that does not meet the current code.
The current code requires grounded NM type cable.
 
  #5  
Old 09-26-14, 07:45 PM
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I think the restriction on extending ungrounded circuits is inferred from 250.130 but not sure that exact phrase is used so NEC may not convince your contractor.
 
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Old 09-26-14, 08:09 PM
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I'm sure I'll have a much more pleasant conversation with the contractor if I can backup requests with specific code references.
If the inspector failed the work, I don't see where you have to tell the contractor anything. It's the contractor's responsibility to complete the work and arrange for inspection and see that it satisfies the inspector and is passed. I'd let the contractor ask the inspector for any code references.
 
  #7  
Old 09-26-14, 08:28 PM
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All the ground wires (equipment grounding conductors) are tied together wherever they come together such as in an outlet box.

A "new" e.g. Romex circuit may share a junction box with an "old" e.g. cloth covered conductor or BX sheathed circuit. Whether new or old, the neutral from one feed cable may not be tied to the neutral from a different incoming cable. So it is possible to have two wire nutted clusters of white wires.

Even if equipped with a separately run ground wire, an otherwise non-complying circuit may not be added on to.

A new circuit may be run from the panel to a junction box and continuing portions of an old circuit (the old feed was decommissioned) may be fed by the new circuit with or without continuation of the new circuit from there.
 
  #8  
Old 09-30-14, 11:48 AM
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Thanks, 250.130 seems to be exactly right. If I am reading it correctly, the ground can be connected to the grounding electrode system, the grounding electrode conductor, or the neutral bar in the panel. Thus, the inspector seems to be wrong; this can't be simply connected to another branch circuit's ground.

One thing about San Jose: you never get the same inspector twice. So, what's good for one may not be good for the next. My concern is my contractor will do what the last inspector recommended only to be failed by the next inspector. This is my reason for wanting to do my homework.

Another question: can the ground be a separate wire, or does it have to be bundled in a cable? If the latter, can you point to a section in the NEC?

Thanks!

P.S. The contractor doesn't get paid until inspection is passed, so passing the next inspection is in both our interests.
 

Last edited by DSPTom; 09-30-14 at 11:52 AM. Reason: Post Script
  #9  
Old 09-30-14, 11:51 AM
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Ground wire can be a separate conductor such as THHN because it only carries current when there is a fault.
 
  #10  
Old 09-30-14, 01:29 PM
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Often it is just as much hassle to add the new grounding conductor as a new cable.
 
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