Fix or replace electrical outlet box?

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  #1  
Old 10-21-14, 01:15 PM
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Fix or replace electrical outlet box?

Rusty screw got stuck & broke off where a cap or receptacle would be screwed in. Then, the piece with the broken rusty screw still intact broke off box. How would you fix this electrical outlet box or would you replace the electrical outlet box?
 
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  #2  
Old 10-21-14, 01:17 PM
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Can't see how you would fix that, think it needs to be replaced.
 
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Old 10-21-14, 01:25 PM
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Is that a concrete wall? Is that conduit into the box? Would a surface mount box be acceptable in that location?
 
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Old 10-21-14, 01:54 PM
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Is that a concrete wall?
Yes

Is that conduit into the box?
I believe so

Would a surface mount box be acceptable in that location?
What would make a surface mount "acceptable in that location" or not?
 
  #5  
Old 10-21-14, 02:43 PM
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Just meant would it look okay to you? If so I would put a 4x4 balk cover plate with center knock out over the box. Feed the wires through the 4x4 plate and fasten the cover plate to the concrete. Put a bead of caulk on the top and side edges, but not the bottom before fastening.

Feed the wires into a surface mount box with a back knock out centered over the blank plate knock out. Caulk and fasten the surface mount box to the blank plate.

You will also need to add a ground wire to the original box and feed it into the new box.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 10-21-14 at 03:09 PM.
  #6  
Old 10-21-14, 09:27 PM
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Well you he-manned the screw out, you could probably he-man the box out to be replaced.
For future reference, I break screws all the time. Take a pair of side cutters and carefully squeeze them over the nub just enough to get them to sink into the screw a bit. Then ever so gently start turning it out.
 
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Old 10-21-14, 10:11 PM
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you could probably he-man the box out to be replaced.
I disagree. Not with conduit embedded in concrete holding it in. You could wreck it but no way to get a new box in if you did, at least not with reasonable effort.

Edit: I thought there was conduit from the side and the back but it seems to only be from the back so Mr. Awsome's idea might work.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 10-22-14 at 12:20 AM.
  #8  
Old 10-21-14, 10:31 PM
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Unlikely but not impossible. If he managed to get it out while keeping the (assumed) emt connector in tact, he could replace it with a masonry box and secure it with a couple of screws and a locknut.

EDIT: or just use a new connector.
 

Last edited by Mr.Awesome; 10-21-14 at 10:33 PM. Reason: Brain kicked in.
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Old 10-21-14, 11:36 PM
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I'd wait for input from others on my idea, good or bad. But how about drilling inside yellow circle and tapping for #6-32 machine screw?

Blue circle is just to warn about exposed wires.
 
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Old 10-22-14, 12:16 AM
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It is a possibility tapping it might work.

In blowing it up I realized I may have been to quick to condemn Mr. Awesome's idea. I thought there was conduit from the side and the back but it seems to only be from the back.
 
  #11  
Old 10-22-14, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.Awesome
Well you he-manned the screw out, you could probably he-man the box out to be replaced...
Actually, he did not "he-manned the screw out"...He was gently unscrewing it when it broke. That said, he DID try to he-man the box but it's not going anywhere without major time & effort. Spent half a day just trying to dig around the edges to get it out without demoing too much. Thanks for the future reference.
 
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Old 10-22-14, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Handyone
... how about drilling inside yellow circle and tapping for #6-32 machine screw?
Sounds interesting, what type & size drill bit?

Originally Posted by Handyone
Blue circle is just to warn about exposed wires.
Thanks for the heads up!
 
  #13  
Old 10-22-14, 05:55 PM
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Blue circle is just to warn about exposed wires.
Actually the white wire also has bare wire showing.
 
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Old 10-22-14, 05:56 PM
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A 6-32 tap can be bought with the correct size drill included.
 
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Old 10-22-14, 06:08 PM
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You have one mounting flange still available. Lightly attach a receptacle to that flange as you normally would.
Use the other hole of receptacle as a guide for drilling second hole.
A split point drill bit will drill through metal. Drill bits can drill through both wood and metal.
I can't tell you the pilot hole size, this was just an idea. But the important thing is finding the 6-32 tap and it will indicate required pilot.

(Ray is quick on the draw)
 
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Old 10-23-14, 06:05 PM
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Thanks!

I have drill bits...
Do I need a "tap" or can I just use the proper sized drill bit, which appears to be 7/64?
 
  #17  
Old 10-23-14, 06:42 PM
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You definitely need to use a tap after you use the correct size drillbit. Especially in a soft material like this you want to ensure that you have cleanly cut threads. Using this crew to cut threads isn't going to work.
 
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Old 10-24-14, 01:25 PM
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Thanks!

OK so...I've got this set of Craftsman drill bits, whose sizes are in fractions plus one extra gold one. There are no identifying marks nor part # so I don't know what material they're intended to be used with.

Also, found this Irwin 6-32 NC Carded High Carbon Steel Bottom Tap (1788670), which says to "Use with #36 drill bit". That said, was I right when I said...
...the proper sized drill bit, which appears to be 7/64?
 
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Old 10-24-14, 02:38 PM
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You need to use a taper tap first to start the thread then a bottoming tap. Sometimes a plug tap will work for both starting and finishing. 7/64 = #35 and should work.
 
  #20  
Old 10-25-14, 09:22 AM
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I usually just refer to a tap/drill chart.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tap+...2&ved=0CDAQsAQ
 
  #21  
Old 11-05-14, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047
You will also need to add a ground wire to the original box and feed it into the new box.
Thanks!
I've been hearing that in older homes like mine (1970) these boxes may have been ground from behind. Before I try adding a ground wire, anyway I can check, if the box is ground with a cheapo HF Multimeter like this.
 
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Last edited by c1351996; 11-05-14 at 08:11 AM.
  #22  
Old 11-05-14, 08:50 AM
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We would advise analog not a digital pictured if your buying. Yes that is the usual way. The digital will work fine. It is just when checking AC voltage a digital can be problematic.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 11-05-14 at 09:32 AM.
  #23  
Old 11-05-14, 09:25 AM
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Wiring from the 70's should have a ground. Is there a metal conduit feeding that receptacle or a cable?
 
  #24  
Old 11-05-14, 11:14 AM
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Yes, I believe this is metal. I couldn't tell at first with all the paint but it's nice and shiny where I scratched deep enough.
 
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Old 11-05-14, 12:03 PM
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If the metal conduit is a continuous path it can be used as the grounding means.
 
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Old 11-05-14, 08:02 PM
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I've been hearing that in older homes like mine (1970) these boxes may have been ground from behind.
Yes, metal boxes in wood framing did sometimes get grounded from outside the box when NM cable was used, I have seen it many times, but the box you are dealing with is not in wood framing, but a Bell box set in masonry. That box is not grounded from behind. It's also the wrong type box to have been set in masonry, but you still have to deal with what you have.
 
  #27  
Old 11-07-14, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by pcboss
If the metal conduit is a continuous path it can be used as the grounding means.
Please define..."continuous path".
And how can it used as the grounding means?
 
  #28  
Old 11-07-14, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by CasualJoe
I've been hearing that in older homes like mine (1970) these boxes may have been ground from behind.
Yes, metal boxes in wood framing did sometimes get grounded from outside the box when NM cable was used, I have seen it many times, but the box you are dealing with is not in wood framing, but a Bell box set in masonry. That box is not grounded from behind. It's also the wrong type box to have been set in masonry, but you still have to deal with what you have.
What is the right type of box?
 
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Old 11-07-14, 09:33 AM
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A masonry box should have been used.
 
  #30  
Old 11-08-14, 03:20 AM
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Are you going to install a receptacle , when you finish , or maybe some sort of light fixture ?

If a receptacle , just use a GFCI receptacle . That way you should be as safe as you are going to get with what you have .

God bless
Wyr
 
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