Lengthen Existing Wire Without Junction Box

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Old 11-24-14, 01:05 PM
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Lengthen Existing Wire Without Junction Box

When we built our house a few years ago the electrician ran a wire to a junction box in our basement ceiling because we thought we were going to want a floor outlet in the living room on the main level. We haven't needed it because of the way our furniture is arranged currently but may still want it in the future. I am currently finishing my basement and want to move the junction box, mentioned above, from an area that will be finished to an unfinished area. Unfortunately the wire is not long enough to reach the unfinished area. Is there an NEC approved way to lengthen wire without having it in an accessible junction box? I really don't want a random blank faceplate in my basement ceiling. Thanks for your help.
 
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Old 11-24-14, 01:17 PM
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There is an inline connector for modern NM-B cable which is approved for use inside walls without a junction box. They are used for assembling walls of a manufactured house. Personally I don't trust them, but you can use them as long as the local electrical inspector allows it.

Tyco Electronics Romex Splice Kit 2 Wire, 1/Clam-CPGI-1116377-2 at The Home Depot
 
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Old 11-24-14, 01:21 PM
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There are connectors used in modular homes which may or may not be approved in your area. I
 
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Old 11-24-14, 02:40 PM
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Is there a way you can get the cable into a closet ceiling?
Just a thought.
Geo
 
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Old 11-24-14, 03:20 PM
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but may still want it in the future.
Install the box and plop a smoke detector on it for now.
 
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Old 11-24-14, 03:27 PM
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Pull the cable back into the unfinished area and run a new cable to the new location.
 
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Old 11-24-14, 03:38 PM
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I like Mr. Awesome's idea. A smoke or combo smoke/CO detector wouldn't hurt.
 
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Old 11-24-14, 07:29 PM
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The trouble will be that the smoke will not be interconnected to any of the other smoke alarms.
 
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Old 11-24-14, 07:41 PM
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Nothing wrong with that. I'll assume they have an interconnected system already, this would just be an extra smoke. No harm.
And if they don't have an interconnected system, well theres the first in line!
 
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Old 11-24-14, 07:43 PM
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PC,
I should know this and don't. Please elaborate.
Please don't tell me this is a new requirement. I had a home inspection done pretty recently that checked for detectors with no mention of them having to be interconnected.
 
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Old 11-24-14, 07:57 PM
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Brian,
I think that rule is for new builds.
If you have an older home with battery operated smokes everywhere, whats done is done and they likely won't expect you to shell out a ton of money wiring smokes in everywhere.
I heard a dirty rumor that the next edition of my CEC is going to require a smoke in every bedroom!
 
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Old 11-24-14, 08:10 PM
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require a smoke in every bedroom
Any building permit here will require smoke detectors in every bedroom, this is for remodels, regardless of project. Battery is OK.

I can understand this interconnected system for new home construction, just not remodels.
 
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Old 11-25-14, 08:19 AM
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The NEC requires hardwired, interconnected smokes. The extent to which it is enforced for remodels varies a lot by jurisdiction. Some cities require full smoke/CO compliance with any electrical permit pulled, some allow batteries, some allow wireless interconnects, some don't check smokes at all unless the permit directly affects them, some have different compliance for owner-occupied vs. rental. Lots of variation around the country.
 
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Old 11-25-14, 08:27 AM
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Understood.
I guess best thing to do is check with local office. I would say it's best to check early on in the project. Hardwiring and interconnecting the alarms will probably be a bigger job than the work the permit is for, Ouch.
 
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Old 11-25-14, 09:06 AM
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Yeah, there's one city near me that requires hardwired and interconnected smoke and CO detectors on every floor, in every living space of the house for any electrical permit pulled on the property. Want a receptacle on your front porch for xmas lights? I've got to bust holes in all of your bedroom ceilings, crawl through the basement and attic, cut open wire chases, pull a whole roll of 14/3, add a day of labor on the quote, then I can get to work on that receptacle. Guess who doesn't get the job and guess who hires a day laborer to do a hack job on the receptacle?
 
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Old 11-25-14, 09:39 PM
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The building code actually requires the smoke alarms. The NEC has the rules about how they are wired.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 08:10 AM
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The building code actually requires the smoke alarms. The NEC has the rules about how they are wired.
I agree. .....................
 
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Old 11-26-14, 08:44 AM
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Thanks

Thanks for all of the replies. This is a really helpful site! Lots of good ideas.
ibpooks, can you please expand on why you don't trust the splice kit you linked to?
To the others that replied as well... great idea about using it for a smoke alarm for the time being, unfortunately the existing junction box just so happens to be right outside of one of the bedrooms, so a smoke detector will need to be there that is connected to the rest of the smoke detectors in the house. I think it would look a little goofy having two smoke detectors next to each other. Really like the idea though. If anyone is curious, in my area we are required to have a smoke detector in every bedroom and one right outside of every bedroom.
Also, I think I may be able to get the existing wire to a nearby closet. I am thinking that may be the best solution for my situation. Thanks again.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 08:54 AM
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Reply to pcboss "Pull the cable back into the unfinished area and run a new cable to the new location."...

The cable is connected to a light switch in the living room on the main floor. The idea being that this floor receptacle would be for a lamp controlled by the switch. The electrician ran the cable from the switch down into the basement. I haven't yet tried but I am guessing that I won't be able to pull the cable from the switch into the basement while pulling a new longer cable. I do not think it is straight down through the bottom plate of the wall with the switch on it.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 09:01 AM
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The cable is connected to a light switch in the living room on the main floor.
Since you can easily get to both ends I'd just abandon in place. If you want you could run a longer cable from the switch while the basement ceiling is open but if it is unlikely to be needed I wouldn't bother.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 07:40 PM
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in my area we are required to have a smoke detector in every bedroom and one right outside of every bedroom.
In addition, most areas will have that same requirement plus at least one detector on each level of the home including the basement. They typically are required to be hardwired, interconnected and backed up with a battery too. Wireless interconnection is usually also approved for existing homes.
 
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