Is this something that needs fixing?

Reply

  #1  
Old 12-13-14, 02:02 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,445
Is this something that needs fixing?

I am in the process of replacing my flat roof.

But on the roof is where the electrical service come in. Here is a picture.



Since it's a flat roof I don't have an attic, but the panels are on the other side of the building, so this conduit enters the narrow space between the ceiling and roof deck and goes to the other end.

Upon looking closer, this metal conduit has a hole and I can see the thick conductors inside of it.





Is this a problem? Does this conduit need to be replaced? Sealed off? This is BEFORE the panel and the wires go to the street where the transformer box is hanging on a wood pole.

If it needs to be dealt with, unless it's a matter of putting duct tape over it, I would need an electrician for this and the power company needs to turn power off for this? Should it be dealt with before or after the reroof?
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 12-13-14, 02:26 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,968
No duct tape. It needs replacing. Yes the POCO will need to remove the power. It MAY take an electrician, but it is doable to replace the entire pipe, depending on where your meter base is located. Picture of that would help, too. Do it before the re roof so the roofers can properly seal up the hole and around the pipe.
 
  #3  
Old 12-13-14, 04:18 PM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 11,981
I agree! Replace the mast with IMC and the flashing. You might need to have the meter box replaced as well as things might not come apart. This should all be done before the re-roof.
 
  #4  
Old 12-13-14, 04:59 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,445
I don't understand the comment about the meter box. The meter is 32 feet across on the other side of the building in the electric room with all the service disconnects to each of the four apartments. Does the whole path from this thing on the roof to the meter need to be exposed? If so the roof needs to be cut open from one end to the other.
 
  #5  
Old 12-13-14, 05:09 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 4,297
Is that a power mast or a funnel to feed the maximum amount of water into the inside of the house?
Should have been replaced 20 years ago.
 
  #6  
Old 12-13-14, 07:05 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,213
I don't understand the comment about the meter box. The meter is 32 feet across on the other side of the building in the electric room with all the service disconnects to each of the four apartments.
You didn't say that before. Typically the meter socket is outside and the mast is directly above it. Since this is a 4 family apartment building with the metering all indoors it is anything but typical. The first thing I would do is consult a local contractor who would be familiar with the power company rules. Many power companies no longer allow indoor metering without special permission. If the metering must be moved outside you have quite a project on your hands. The contractor is your best resource as he can look the entire system over and make recommendations. Your question was about replacing the mast. Yes, it needs to be replaced badly and MIGHT need replacing all the way to the metering point, but no one on this forum can tell for sure without seeing the entire project.
 
  #7  
Old 12-13-14, 07:40 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NJ - USA
Posts: 43,482
That is actually a rare service. Most, if not all, power companies do not allow that much unfused wiring inside a dwelling. I can echo CJ's comments. That system will need to be looked over. I wouldn't be surprised if the power company feed will need to be moved to the other end of the building or the metering moved to the service end of the building.
 
  #8  
Old 12-13-14, 09:00 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,359
The rusted mast is what supplies the support for the overhead triplex from the pole. It is well beyond needing to be replaced.

The unfused cable should not be that long in the house. It should be a s short as practical. You may need to add a disconnect to correct this.
 
  #9  
Old 12-13-14, 09:58 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,445
OK I will contact an electrician contractor and get an estimate.

I highly doubt the power company will need to move the meters, because these are new meters, five of them - one for each of the four apartments, and one house meter for the common usages such as security lights and washer/dryer. These meters were less than two years old that the power company came by to replace in order for them to do the new way of meter reading without having to access the building, they drive by and can read the meters in their trucks.
 
  #10  
Old 12-13-14, 10:18 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NJ - USA
Posts: 43,482
The power company doesn't move the meter pans and location.... you do.
They come and pull the meters...... you move the equipment and they put them back in.
 
  #11  
Old 12-14-14, 05:04 AM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,213
I highly doubt the power company will need to move the meters, because these are new meters, five of them
The age of the meters is not an issue. PJ has it right, the metering equipment MAY need to be moved, but you'll never know till someone contacts the power company. If the metering equipment is original, it may have to be replaced at the same time.
 
  #12  
Old 12-14-14, 06:37 AM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,359
When the meters were changed they had no option but to put them in the same socket. Now that new work is going to be done they may make you make changes to bring the service into compliant.

I don't know how that much unfused service was ever passed.
 
  #13  
Old 12-14-14, 10:34 AM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NJ - USA
Posts: 43,482
Not to harp on a subject but we mention unfused wiring inside a building because if there was a short in that wiring..... there are no circuit breakers in the building to trip. That service is protected by a circuit breaker on the transformer but a lot of current (400,500,600 amps) could flow before that tripped.

If that pipe snaps at the roof of your place.... you will have quite a bang. It wouldn't be pretty.
 
  #14  
Old 12-14-14, 11:52 AM
Handyone's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: U.S.
Posts: 5,451
San Diego changed over to smart meters, the contractor's only job was to swap out meters.
If there was an arc flash or they happened to blow out the sockets, that's on you. Many people were unhappy with this, some with shotguns!
My point is upon swapping out meters, the meter would be swapped out whether the site was proper or not.
 
  #15  
Old 12-14-14, 03:34 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,213
I don't know how that much unfused service was ever passed.
I have seen houses built in the '50s that had 30 to 40 feet of unfused service cable running through the attic to a service panel. For the OP's mast to be rusted through, that apartment building could also be that old.
 
  #16  
Old 12-16-14, 01:57 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,445
Had two electricians come by this morning, and it doesn't look that bad.

First of all, this is a recent acquired property so I am still finding out things, and I was an idiot to not realize the service comes UP through the slab in the electrical room, not DOWN from the ceiling. So both electricians pointed out the mast is a 2" ridgid conduit that runs vertically down through the exterior concrete wall to the foundation, then across the building and back up into the electrical room. Because the entire path is embedded in concrete, it is code compliant and there is no need to move anything anywhere.

The fix they proposed is to have the electric company do a disconnect and reconnect, and this would require Florida Power and Light to be there, as well as a city permit. They need to open up my roof, and quite possibly chip into the concrete wall, until they find the next threaded coupling, and replace the whole 2" conduit along with the weather head. They believe they can use all existing wiring.

One of the electricians said he has seen this sort of holes on the mast before. He said last year he found one that was man made, they put a hole in the mast, then teed off a line to power a grow house without having to pay for the electric.

He did say this is unusual they do that and he further commented that it is possible, but unlikely, that when the power company comes to do a disconnect they will realize they need a power pole on the other side of the house, if they call it in then I may be faced with having to move the line to the other side. Can the power company do that? Erect a new power pole and tell you to move your lines to that one?

Now my question was if they open up the roof and the section of pipe below that is sound and good, do they really need to chip into the concrete wall? Can't they just tap new threads there and connect to a new piece? He said it is possible but that is left up to the field guys to work out.
 
  #17  
Old 12-16-14, 02:02 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,445
I have seen houses built in the '50s that had 30 to 40 feet of unfused service cable running through the attic to a service panel. For the OP's mast to be rusted through, that apartment building could also be that old.
You are correct it is 1953.
 
  #18  
Old 12-16-14, 04:23 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,359
They might be able to replace from the first coupling up to the weatherhead. Depending on the amount of corrosion.

They are correct that unfused wires are considered outside the building if under 2" or more of concrete.
 
  #19  
Old 12-16-14, 05:04 PM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 11,981
The power company can pretty much make you do anything they want. However, I find it unlikely that they would make you move your service if they are anything like the POCO here.

I don't really see how they could cut the pipe and re-thread without the risk of damaging the conductors. to do that they would have to pull the wire out and the chances of that are about zero. Going back to the last good coupling is likely the best course IMO.

I can't believe that is rigid pipe. If that was here it would last 100 years! Your salty air really eats stuff up!
 
  #20  
Old 12-16-14, 05:08 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NJ - USA
Posts: 43,482
Since the install is technically correct based on mitigating factors I doubt the power company would force you to move the service. The don't "look" for additional work to do so if there is no pole on that side of the building it's not likely they'll put one in.

They "could" tap the conduit in place but that is not that easy of a job. They need a good bit of room for the tap die as well as the handle and the wiring could be easily nicked.


On edit:
Tag.... you're it.

I wonder it there is an electrolysis effect working on that conduit. That would certainly help the rusting.
 
  #21  
Old 12-17-14, 05:16 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,445
it may not be just salt in the air, it may be also how it rains every day of the spring and summer...or that mast was damaged not by the natural elements but by say a fallen tree branch during a hurricane, cracked the pipe and then over time the corrosion from the crack caused the hole.
 
  #22  
Old 12-17-14, 08:30 AM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,213
Now my question was if they open up the roof and the section of pipe below that is sound and good, do they really need to chip into the concrete wall? Can't they just tap new threads there and connect to a new piece?
If there is room under the roof and above the concrete they may be able to cut the conduit with a pipe cutter without damaging the conductors, but there is no guarantee. If they can I doubt they would try to cut new threads, but would probably use a threadless rigid coupling. They are available in both compression and setscrew types. As long as it is under the pitch pocket, a setscrew type would be the easiest.
 
  #23  
Old 12-17-14, 08:59 AM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NJ - USA
Posts: 43,482
I don't know about a set screw type connector. That pipe holds the service drop up. If it didn't have a solid connection to the old conduit there would be guy wires needed on the roof.
 
  #24  
Old 12-17-14, 09:13 AM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,213
I don't think setscrew or compression makes much difference as long as it is a steel threadless connector, but that is just my opinion. I tend to stay away from diecast connectors of any type when I have the choice. Guy wires might be required anyway depending on the height of the mast and the height of the service drop. There is a lot we cannot see from the pictures such as the distance between the roof deck and the concrete and all clearances.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'