Circle AW meter main - verifying legal breakers issue

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Old 12-16-14, 01:00 PM
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Circle AW meter main - verifying legal breakers issue

Hi, I have an old Circle AW meter main that I've recently added a second breaker to. The existing breaker is a 100amp Challenger breaker. I've added an 80amp (per electrical inspector) Cutler-Hammer breaker. Now the inspector needs me to verify that the new breaker is compatible with this meter main. He has indicated it should say so on the meter label. Well, the label is in poor shape. So, wondering if I post a picture of it, might someone out there have the same meter main and be able to post a clear pic, and or if anyone has any information that would prove to the inspector that the Cutler-Hammer breaker is a legal substitution. Thanks much!

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Old 12-16-14, 07:20 PM
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I am not familiar with Circle AW, but the best I can find is they were acquired by Cooper and incorporated into the B-Line subsidiary. The only suggestion I have is to contact B-Line.
 
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Old 12-16-14, 08:10 PM
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Yeah, Likely Eaton can hook you up. Contact them:

B-Line Meter Mounting Catalog Download
 
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Old 12-16-14, 08:21 PM
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Yeah, Likely Eaton can hook you up. Contact them:
That's right, Eaton acquired Cooper. Since they also own Cutler-Hammer, my money is on you getting a recommendation to use the BR series Cutler-Hammer breaker.
 
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Old 12-16-14, 09:16 PM
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Interesting after a quick look at that link. Eaton lists B-Line as well as ITE breaker part numbers for meter mains. ITE is now Siemens which I thought was a competitor.
 
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Old 12-16-14, 10:53 PM
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Are you sure it wasn't AH in a circle? Arrow-Hart made electrical panels at one time, then were bought out by Murray.

If that is the case, it is an Aluminium buss panel that's at least 30 years old and you should plan to replace it when you can.
 
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Old 12-16-14, 11:19 PM
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Definitely...

Circle A-W Products Co., Inc.
Modesto, California
Portland, Oregon

Distributors for ??? Manufacturing Co. (name missing from label)
 
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Old 12-17-14, 08:59 AM
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Eaton lists B-Line as well as ITE breaker part numbers for meter mains. ITE is now Siemens which I thought was a competitor.
Yes, Siemens is a competitor of Eatons, but it is entirely possible that this goes back to the original U.L. approvals to use ITE breakers in AW equipment before AW was acquired by Cooper (who was later acquired by Eaton). It sounds like a Siemens Type QP would be the proper breaker to use. I believe it would be a Q280.
 
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Old 12-17-14, 12:34 PM
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Thanks for all the information!

Actually, I have been in touch with Eaton through a local Electrical re-seller. Eaton provided a compatibility sheet verifying that the Cutler Hammer BR Breaker I installed was a suitable replacement for a Challenger Type C application. They didn't confirm that it was suitable in a Circle AW meter main though. That is where the inspector is being very strict. Yes, I may be looking at a total replacement since it is 30 some years old now. Thanks for the feedback!
 
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Old 12-17-14, 06:46 PM
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Eaton provided a compatibility sheet verifying that the Cutler Hammer BR Breaker I installed was a suitable replacement for a Challenger Type C application. They didn't confirm that it was suitable in a Circle AW meter main though.
Yes, Challenger became a part of Eaton and was combined with the Cutler-Hammer business some time ago (during the '90s I believe) and yes, the BR series Cutler-Hammer is the correct replacement for Challenger Type C breakers. But, the issue was what is compatible with AW. I think if you go back to Post #5 you'll find your answer in case you missed it.
 
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Old 12-18-14, 01:54 PM
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Well, I've looked at Post #5 and looked at the link from Post #3 and browsed through some of the documents. Not finding anything concrete that says a Cutler-Hammer or Challenger Type C breaker is acceptable in a Circle AW meter main. If you can point me to what I need more specifically, I would be grateful. Thanks!
 
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Old 12-19-14, 09:13 AM
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Go back to the link again and look under the Western Region Catalog. Click on the "DOWNLOAD ENTIRE CATALOG" link. Go to page 14 and you'll find the breaker data listed as ITE breakers which are now Siemens with the same numbers.
 
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Old 12-31-14, 12:37 PM
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Hi Joe, I'm obviously missing some connection here that appears to be quite clear to you. I hope you can assist me with putting the connection together. Apparently somewhere there was a way to tie the Circle AW meter main with B-Line and/or Eaton. ITE breakers which is now Siemens were/are compatible with Circle AW according to another document. And the Cutler-Hammer is an acceptable replacement for Challenger breakers, which are an acceptable replacement for ITE breakers? Sorry to be so dense on this, but, I am the home owner, not an electrician in any way. I somehow need to put the pieces here together so they may be presented to the Electrical Inspector so that it is clear to him as well. Thanks again and hope you all had a great holiday season...Happy New Year!
 
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Old 12-31-14, 07:15 PM
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ITE breakers which is now Siemens were/are compatible with Circle AW according to another document.
Do you have a copy of that document? If you do, show it to the inspector, that should do it. Then use Siemens breakers.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 01:07 PM
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No, I don't have that document. I was just guessing that there must be such a document.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 07:58 PM
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No, I don't have that document. I was just guessing that there must be such a document.
You were the one who made the statement. If you don't know what breaker to use, call Cooper.
 
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Old 01-30-15, 05:33 PM
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fwiw... I contacted Eaton/Cooper and the information they provided regarding UL listed and UL Recognized parts was satisfactory information for the electrical inspector.
 
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Old 01-30-15, 05:53 PM
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Good! Glad you got it figured out. Thanks for letting us know!
 
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