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GFCI on Timer not providing power and tripping 20a breaker at panel when RESET

GFCI on Timer not providing power and tripping 20a breaker at panel when RESET

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  #1  
Old 12-20-14, 02:30 AM
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Question GFCI on Timer not providing power and tripping 20a breaker at panel when RESET

Ok, very tired and its nearly 3am.... so I apologize if I don't catch everything you guys need to help me out, but here goes.

New Christmas light outdoor circuit - 4 outlets total
12/2 awg cable
20a normal cutler hammer brand new breaker that fits in my panel
1 outlet = GFCI that will work for 15a and 20a loads
3 outlets = Normal receptacles
1 quantity = T103 40Amp commercial Intermatic mechanical timer
4 outdoor enclosure wet protective outlet boxes with weather gaskets and outlet face spring action door covers; outlets mounted under the soffit and 1 (the GFCI) mounted on and into the brick wall just outside the garage.

I finally got all this hooked up tonight (and this is not my first electrical job), but this is my first time hooking up a GFCI and a Mechanical Timer.

T103 - thats my exact timer and its BRAND New.

I've confirmed by this guy's drawing (assuming its right and I believe it is) that I've wired the T103 correctly:
http://waterheatertimer.org/images/T...V-Load-450.jpg

Tested voltage at the timer terminals and here are results:
A to 1 = 123v with manual ON button ON
A to 2 = 123v with manual ON button ON
A to 2 with manual ON button in OFF position = 0v

So it would appear that the timer manual power override button is working and I hear the clock buzzing like its on.

I have followed the GFCI installation instructions carefully and pulled the outlet apart and redone it.... I even thought that perhaps the white neutral was hitting the black or white or green ground lines ... but that didn't seem to be the case.

EVERY TIME I PRESS RESET the 20a cutler hammer breaker trips of circuit OFF.

Is there some issue with using the GFCI with the TIMER that I'm not aware of?

FYI - I have verified which lines are LINE HOT and which are LOAD lines at the GFCI, and the GFCI has been sitting outside with tape over it mostly under "covered" for the past year or so... it was taped up against the house and NOThING got in it at all all that time... it was just in "pause mode" to finish.. could that weather exposure from humidity etc... have ruined it alfter all this time?


THE GFCI LINE lines that run to them are HOT and have 123v also and I have verified 2x that I've plugged the wires into the correct ports.

I've also looked at this for help and it didn't:
http://www.justanswer.com/electrical...a-replace.html

Thats the GFCI I have a sock sentry.

Falling asleep big time guys. HELP ME!!! if you caaaannn!!
 
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  #2  
Old 12-20-14, 05:13 AM
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One step at a time if we may for clarification.

20a normal cutler hammer brand new breaker that fits in my panel
What you mean by "normal" is that it is not a GFCI or AFCI single pole breaker.
Also, you state it "fits" in your panel. Just because a breaker fits in a panel does not mean it is made for that panel or will function correctly in the panel. What brand and model is your panel.

EVERY TIME I PRESS RESET the 20a cutler hammer breaker trips of circuit OFF.
If I breaker trips immediately this is indicating a dead short more than likely.

Question, I do not see in your post in relation to each other. Does it go panel to timer to GFCI receptacle to remaining receptacles.

Or Panel to GFCI receptacle to Timer to remaining receptacles. I would assume the first in this case but please clarify.

If it is wired panel to timer have you attempted to disconnect the load on the timer and try activating the timer without a load to see if the breaker does not trip in this case. This way you can go step by step. If the timer does not trip the breaker than your wiring is good to the timer. Then remove the wires from the load side of the GFCI. Now connect the wires to the load of the timer going to the GFCI. if this does not trip the breaker then press the reset button on the GFCI and see if it will reset. But be sure you have removed the wires from the load side of the gFCI first. Let's not put a load on the GFCI yet. Let's just try to get the GFCI to work inline with the timer without tripping the breaker. Now if that does not trip the breaker then connect your wires going to the remaining receptacles to the load on the GFCI. Try it again and see if it trips the breaker. If it does then there is a dead short in the remaining receptacles. Go one by one removing the wires from all of them and adding them back only after you have tested each one be testing it.

Also, keeping tape around a gFCI will keep moisture in the enclosed area which will possibly cause it to trip. But you are stating the breaker is tripping not the GFCI receptacle.
 
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Old 12-20-14, 06:07 AM
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Sounds like a dead short. Let's start by removing the load cables from the gfi and see if it will allow a reset. If so there is a problem downstream. Go to receptacle 3 and disconnect the cable to R4. Reconnect the load to the gfi. Restore power and test. If it trips the problem is at R2 or R3.
 
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Old 12-20-14, 06:20 PM
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Cool

Thanks guys. Dead short huh... hmmmm...

Correct - the culter hammer 20a is NOT a GFCI or AFCI - its a regular breaker

All I can tell you is that the breaker is right for the panel. I confirmed this before I bought it at the store. It is an EATON related breaker.

The circuit order is:
Main Principal panel > T103 Timer > Cooper GFCI R1 > R2 > R3 > R4

There is a green ground screw terminal in the T103. I have grounded that to the house ground that goes back to the breaker panel. Is that wrong? Should I not have attached the ground to that screw? Could that be the dead short?

"If it is wired panel to timer have you attempted to disconnect the load on the timer and try activating the timer without a load to see if the breaker does not trip in this case."
NO. Because I can turn on the power to this circuit, I hear the timer running, and the voltage at the timer terminals is correct and with nothing plugged into ANY outlet the 20a Cutler Hammer break in the main Panel does not trip at all. Whether I set the timer to run by itself (manual lever to OFF) or on "ON" the 20a breaker still does not trip and I can very easily hear the timer running as it should be.

"Then remove the wires from the load side of the GFCI. Now connect the wires to the load of the timer going to the GFCI."
I have done that and it DOES NOT trip the breaker.

"if this does not trip the breaker then press the reset button on the GFCI and see if it will reset. But be sure you have removed the wires from the load side of the gFCI first. Let's not put a load on the GFCI yet. Let's just try to get the GFCI to work inline with the timer without tripping the breaker."
Pressing the RESET BUTTON on the GFCI trips the 20a culter hammer breaker every single time.... with a big blue FLASH from behind the GFCI outlet.

Also, before I push the RESET button, the amber indicator light is on the GFCI which from what I read with the instructions means that its wired right.

Maybe the GFCI is bad???? I had let the project go for a full year and the GFCI was outside under the eaves of the house high up just hanging out in the open elements with just blue painters tape over it's face and rear.... the tape should've kept moisture, bugs, dirt etc.. out of it, but maybe moisture got in anywhere and is still stuck inside it???? It was a BRAND NEW GFCI a year ago, then was never used till a year later (now).

"Now if that does not trip the breaker then connect your wires going to the remaining receptacles to the load on the GFCI. Try it again and see if it trips the breaker. If it does then there is a dead short in the remaining receptacles. Go one by one removing the wires from all of them and adding them back only after you have tested each one be testing it."
This is where I stopped. At some point last night I took the load of the last 3 outlets R2, R3 and R4 off of the GFCI, I simply can't remember what tests I performed, but I know I did turn the power back on with GFCI R1 being the only outlet that was hot. I think because it was hanging out of the outlet box I was testing that I didn't push the RESET button, but just verified I had it in the right slots (LINE) of the GFCI receptacle and the GFCI amber light was ON (good thing) and I think after that I powered it all off and proceeded to reconnect the load receptacles.

"But you are stating the breaker is tripping not the GFCI receptacle"
Yes, the breaker is tripping, but I don't know for sure if that is a result of a problem with the GFCI or something else.

"Sounds like a dead short. Let's start by removing the load cables from the gfi and see if it will allow a reset."
That is what I will do either tonight or tomorrow and report back. At this point though I'm thinking either I need a new GFCI outlet or that bonding the grounding screw in the TIMER maybe shouldn't have been used.

Model number of the breaker panel - . I'll get that too later.
 
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Old 12-20-14, 06:36 PM
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The timer should be grounded.
 
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Old 12-20-14, 07:22 PM
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Pressing the RESET BUTTON on the GFCI trips the 20a culter hammer breaker every single time.... with a big blue FLASH from behind the GFCI outlet.

Also, before I push the RESET button, the amber indicator light is on the GFCI which from what I read with the instructions means that its wired right.
I believe I'd disconnect the LOAD wires from the GFCI device and try again to re-energize the circuit and reset the GFCI device. If it resets successfully, the GFCI device is good and the problem is further downstream.
 
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Old 12-20-14, 08:10 PM
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It sounds like the ground is touching one of the hot screws on the gfi.
 
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