Advice on dedicated circuits for kitchen

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Old 01-06-15, 10:59 AM
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Advice on dedicated circuits for kitchen

Hello everyone,

I've read and found some info, but still need advice.

Need some advice for wiring kitchen outlets for various equipment. Here is what I plan to do, please let me know your thoughts and/or correct me. All using 12/2 nm-b.

I completed installing 9 75W recessed cans on one dedicated 20A circuit (split between 2 dimmers). Using 11W LED floods

This is what is planned non GFCI:

Dedicated 20A for dishwasher (plug wired)
Dedicated 20A for Refrigerator
Dedicated 20A for Gas range
Dedicated 20A for Range hood (plug wired)
Dedicated 20A for Garbage disposal (plug wired)

Dedicated 20A for:

1 hydronic kick space heater (.5A)
1 electronic kick space heater (8.33A) (ancillary heat--only used when hydronic kick space heater isn't blowing enough warm air)


7 GFCI small appliance counter receptacles split between two 20A (4 on one 20A, 3 on the other 20A). The load for these will comprise of:

1 Toaster over (1200W, 10A)
1 Coffee maker (1425W ,11.9A)
Maybe a stand mixer in the future
Occasionally, a phone and/or laptop charger and/or an under cabinet radio

My goal is to put the toaster oven on one and the coffee maker on the other.

We may get a second toaster oven very soon, so should I split the GFCI counter receptacles into more 20A breakers?

I can do 2 on one 20A, 2 on another 20A and 3 on the last 20A.

No island.

I also want to put two wild card outlet that is 12" off the floor by the exterior door of our kitchen and wondering if I can tie that into something else or should I run a dedicated circuit for those two outlets? I was wondering if I can tap into the garbage disposal or range or range hood for those two. These outlets will be just for whatever necessary, not small appliances like the counter top receptacles.

I'm in Philadelphia, PA.

Thanks.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 11:09 AM
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The code allows all the receptacles in the kitchen and dining areas to be on the 20 amp small appliance circuits to serve the walls and countertop areas. The gas stove can be on one of these. I would not waste a circuit for a dedicated stove. The refrigerator can also be on the countertop circuit.

I would use a 15 amp circuit for the lights and heaters, not a 20.

The DW may require gfi protection depending on enforced code cycle. It might be able to share the circuit with the disposal.

I don't see anything about a microwave. Countertop unit?
 
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Old 01-06-15, 11:55 AM
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No microwave. We use a toaster oven as out food heating unit, other than the regular oven.

Just wondering if I have the small appliance outlets wired to the same circuit, if I use the toaster oven and coffee maker at the same time, will the breaker trip, being that the total amps are about 22A? I'm not an electrician, just going off the numbers.

I could put the stove, the two wall outlets near the exterior door on one 20A.

If I put the dishwasher and garbage disposal on the same, the amps would total 17.3. This is slightly over the 80% load maximum.

My goal in working up these numbers and electrical runs are if we max out at any given time with using any equipment, I want to be within a comfortable limit of electrical load.

I will be adding receptacles for the upstairs bedroom and adjacent dining room, but was planning to put them on a separate circuit. They would only be supplying usual electronic devices like an iron, clock radio and such..

Already ran the 12/2 for the lights and just decided to put on a 20A since the cost of a 20A and 15A is the same for me. I can switch out to a 15. What would be the benefit?
 
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Old 01-06-15, 12:10 PM
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The smaller wires are easier to work with and the expected load was not even close to the 15 amp.

What are the amps on the DW and GD separately?

A 2 amp overload would hold for hours before tripping. In fact a breaker can hold over 125% for two hours and still be within spec.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 12:21 PM
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GD is 6.3A

DW is 11A.

I have the flexibility to do whatever is easiest, but most importantly, safest.

I bought 2 250ft spools of 12/2 and already started using it, so I am fine continuing with 12/2. No big deal for me.

Thanks.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 12:28 PM
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From a code standpoint, you're ok. Overkill comes to mind to describe some of what you're proposing but that's not a code violation. And, if you've already bought all of the 12/2 cable you're going to need for this and are fine with the cost and hassle of it over 14/2, then go right ahead.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 12:33 PM
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Thanks.

What would be the best way to wire everything?

1 Frigde
1 gas range
1 range hood
1 dishwasher
1 Garbage disposal
7 GFCI counter small appliance outlets
2 general purpose outlets
2 kick space heaters

Only the kickspace heaters are not corded.

Thanks.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 12:53 PM
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The general purpose wall receptacles can be on with the two countertop circuits. If you wanted you could add a third countertop circuit and feed them from this.

I would add the stove to one of the countertop circuits. The only stove load is a micro ignitor, the clock and the oven light.

Other than that I agree with your last plan.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 01:09 PM
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So, basically, this is what I could do:

1 20A for the two kickspace heaters

1 20A for the DW and GD

1 20A for the refrigerator + 4 small appliance receptacles

1 20A for the 2 general purpose outlets, the other 3 small appliance receptacles and the range + range hood.

I can split the range and range hood + 2 general purpose outlets onto one, if safer.

Let's say we upgrade the range to one with a convection oven (still gas), am I still okay with the current planned load?

This okay?

Thanks.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 01:53 PM
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If the range hood is cord and plug connected it must be on a dedicated circuit.

I would make the DW and the GD separate.

You would need to check the amps of the convection oven. If in doubt make it a dedicated circuit.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 02:24 PM
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What would be the best way to wire everything?
Once you meet code, it's entirely subjective. You could put every outlet on a separate circuit, but that gets expensive.

Gas convection ovens are usually like 1 amp load, so I don't see a problem leaving it on the countertop circuits.

I would probably do something very close to your post #9, with the exception of a dedicated 20A circuit for the range hood.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 02:44 PM
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Ok. Cool. Thanks.

Looks like the convection oven's I've looked at just mention "A 120 volt, 60 Hz., AC only, 15-amp fused electrical circuit is required." The manual did not mention Amps or watts.

Separate the Range hood, no problem.

As long as my garbage disposal and Dishwasher is fine on the same circuit, I'm good to go. This will actually save me a run because I will switch one of the duplex receptacles with 3 wire and leave the other, for the dishwasher, live.

Actually, the manual for the dishwasher states:

When preparing for installation, ensure that your power supply offers:
• A 120 Volt 60 Hz 15 AMP fuse or circuit breaker
• An individual branch circuit serving only your dishwasher

At 11 amps, can I still combine the DW with the GD or separate, per the manufacturer's instruction?

Thanks.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 02:47 PM
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Those two bullets indicate the manufacturer requires a dedicated 15A circuit for the DW. You can use #12 wire, but it should have a 15A breaker.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 02:56 PM
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Manual for the range hood specifies:

A 120 volt, 60 Hz., AC only, 15-amp, fused
electrical circuit is required.
 
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Old 01-06-15, 06:32 PM
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Thanks again for all the info. Not trying to beat a dead horse, but just want to be code compliant and safe.

since I added the mfg requirements, the GD is now throwing me off. Should I just do a dedeicated circuit? At some of the NEC code I've found, I can't supply power to the GD from the small appliance branch circuit.

Since I want to add 2 outlets to the dining room wall (sharing the kitchen), can I do the following:

1 15A for DW

1 15A for range hood

1 20A for refrigerator + 3 small appliance counter top outlets

1 20A for 2 general purpose outlets + range + 1 small appliance counter top outlet (if there is no load issue, I can drop this to 15A and put the one counter top on the circuit with the refrigerator in anticipation of the new convection range or leave alone)

1 20A for 3 small appliance counter outlets + 2 dining room outlets

1 20A for 2 heaters and GD

With my anticipated small appliances, any load issues with this plan?

Also, any load issues with the 2 heaters and GD on the same circuit?

Thanks.
 
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Old 01-07-15, 07:01 AM
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The range hood wiring needs to be #12 (NEC requires capability to upgrade to a microwave range hood). The SABCs have to be 20A, so no dropping to 15A there. I don't see any other issues.
 
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Old 01-07-15, 07:21 AM
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The range hood wiring needs to be #12
Thanks. No problems here, since I'm running 12/2. I only indicated I would use a 15A breaker since the manual specifies it.

I'm trying to leave everything in a state where if an upgrade is needed, wiring will be already in place.

I'm also back to just wondering if I should run a dedicated circuit for the fridge, but I haven't gotten that far.

Thanks for all the help. The GD and two heaters were my main concern because if I had to run the electrical heater and the GD at the same time, the average amps would be at about 15. Still below the 80% threshold, but I just want to be safe.
 
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Old 01-07-15, 07:41 AM
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It's no problem. The 80% threshold is for continuous loads (running more than 3 hours). Intermittent loads can go to 100% of the circuit ampacity. While the heater could be a continuous load, the disposal is not.
 
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Old 01-07-15, 08:03 AM
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Need some advice for wiring kitchen outlets for various equipment. Here is what I plan to do, please let me know your thoughts and/or correct me. All using 12/2 nm-b.
What version of the NEC do you have to wire to? Depending on the version, GFCI requirements may have to be met on the GD and diswasher. Also depending on the version, some of your circuits may also have to be AFCI protected.
 
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Old 01-07-15, 09:12 AM
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I think this project has been well covered.
I just wanted to say I have a gas convection oven, I had to add a dedicated circuit for it.
It has the fan, a heating element in the fan, and a heating element in the warming drawer. (120).
It was tripping when shared with the small appliance/counter circuit.
 
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Old 01-07-15, 09:28 PM
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What version of the NEC do you have to wire to?
I looked up as much info as possible (being that it is kind of difficult to find exactly what I need) and it appears that Philadelphia follows the 2006 ICC Electrical code.

I've read the sections of the document available and nothing is as stringent as NEC (from what I've read about NEC).

The doc also mentions install prefabricated wire in accordance with the NEC, but that's it.

Anyone can correct me if I am wrong. Here is the link to the doc: http://www.wilberelectrical.com/down...de%20Phila.pdf

I've also found one other doc online that mentions Pennsylvania has adopted the International Building code and International Residential Code, which references 2008 NEC, but does not mention Philadelphia individually.

Thanks.
 
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Old 01-07-15, 09:38 PM
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I think this project has been well covered.
I just wanted to say I have a gas convection oven, I had to add a dedicated circuit for it.
It has the fan, a heating element in the fan, and a heating element in the warming drawer. (120).
It was tripping when shared with the small appliance/counter circuit.
Thanks. My GF and I decided we probably will not buy the new convection gas stove as we will wait for that until we move to another house (whenever that is). It is still a possibility, as we tend to change our decisions, but I may end up running a dedicated circuit. Running this 12/2 is a pain, but I'm glad I can do it now while the kitchen is still gutted.

I ran multiple lines today, but haven't connected them.
 
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Old 01-08-15, 09:14 AM
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As a homeowner, are you allowed to perform electrical work in your home? A quick call to the AHJ can answer this question and also what version of the NEC they are enforcing.
 
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