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Questions about installing a new breaker panel and some outlets

Questions about installing a new breaker panel and some outlets

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  #161  
Old 04-12-15, 10:26 AM
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9' mast (rounding up)
2' drip loops
2' meter to panel connections
= 13'

So times three is 39' and I threw a few feet in for excess. I could probably get away with 40' just fine.

Anyone else? CasualJoe, any input? I think you originally mentioned the 4/0 4/0 2/0 -- any way I can make use of that, or did I buy the wrong stuff?

EDIT: I was thinking I could strip the cladding layer off of this 4/0 4/0 2/0 and be left with two 17' lengths of 4/0 aluminum. Wiring Simplified says the 4/0 Al is rated at 205A, so if there's nothing against code then I would just be short one 4/0 Al conductor. Just thinking out loud here. If nothing else I will go with ray's suggestion of 3/0 copper conductors, as I see that it is rated for something like 225A.

Thanks!
 
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  #162  
Old 04-12-15, 10:35 AM
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In a residence..... you are allowed to use 2/0 copper for your 200A service.
 
  #163  
Old 04-12-15, 10:55 AM
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Unless the conductors in the SE cable are also labeled as to type and size they cannot be used without the sheath.
 
  #164  
Old 04-12-15, 11:37 AM
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Here is the wire without the sheath. Looks like it says 4/0 and XHHG-2 ? It is not very legible at any point, sorry.

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  #165  
Old 04-12-15, 12:08 PM
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When I said use the SEU I didn't mean strip off the sheath. Pros, any reason you can't use SEU in a mast?
 
  #166  
Old 04-12-15, 12:50 PM
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You should be able to use SEU in the mast but it won't be easy to work with.
 
  #167  
Old 05-04-15, 06:25 PM
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Just an update on progress (finally). A few work trips came up in the last few weeks, so that set me back, but I have just been taking my time with all of this in general.

Got everything mounted and connected (for the most part) over the last few days. My mast and my panel turned out a bit crooked somehow, but it's hardly noticeable unless you are looking directly on. I used strut to anchor the mast, and it's pretty damn sturdy. I ended up stripping the SEU cable and using the two 4/0 lines for my loads, and I bought some 2/0 for the neutral. Hopefully it all passes muster.

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I will update when everything is said and done. Thanks for all the help -- could not have done this without this forum!
 
  #168  
Old 05-04-15, 07:24 PM
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Looking good. Thanks for the pictures.
 
  #169  
Old 05-04-15, 07:55 PM
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How high is the weatherhead above the roof deck. It looks just a little too high to me. Maybe 6 to 10 inches too high. If you go too high, you'll need to install support cables for the mast. The power company specs might give the height where support must be installed.
 
  #170  
Old 05-04-15, 07:55 PM
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Move the socket over to plumb the mast. The box should cover the other holes.
 
  #171  
Old 05-04-15, 08:13 PM
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I'm fine with the mast being a bit skewed, so long as it does not prove dangerous. There is an offset nipple and coupling at the base of the mast where it connects to the socket, and I put some silicone in the cracks, so everything should be well sealed.

I will risk the mast being a bit too high above the roof. It is actually tilted in the direction that the a guy wire would be pulling it, and the strut + conduit clamps have it secured very, very well anyway. If they want me to support it I will support it, or hack the mast down a bit one or the other.

I am expecting they might have one or two things to point out when they inspect, just because it looks like an amateur job with the crooked mast lol. I am fine if I have to correct a few things.
 
  #172  
Old 05-08-15, 08:01 AM
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I also might not have mentioned this, but it turns out I've known the building inspector for most of my life (father of a kid I used to play ball with)...so I am hoping he will be taking it easy on me regarding anything that might be 'iffy'. Maybe not, and either way I am cool with making some adjustments.

Here are some more pics of everything. All that is left now is to clamp my ground rod tube to the brick (yes that is flexible stuff), and then connect the circuits and breakers... and apparently I need to label everything, according to Mr. Inspector. (Any further pro tips from you guys on little stuff like that are appreciated!)

Screw it, I just uploaded an Imgur album instead of using this site's images.

Thanks as always.
 
  #173  
Old 05-08-15, 08:23 AM
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Looks good but you need bands of white tape on the service neutral at the weather head, meter socket, and breaker box.
 
  #174  
Old 05-11-15, 07:17 AM
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Thanks Ray, I will make sure to get those put on before they come out to check everything. I have some white tape.

A couple of pics... hoping to get this finished and ready for inspection today. Just posting these in case you guys see something I goofed on.

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  #175  
Old 05-11-15, 09:21 AM
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EDIT: Disregard, a friend answered my question. Yes, the neutrals go to the breakers


Hey guys, these CAFIs and CAFI/GFCI breakers each have two terminals where my other (regular) breakers only have the one. Both terminals are labeled LOAD/CHARGE, but one has a N and one has a current symbol. I know that my load wire goes to the terminal with the current symbol, but does my neutral wire for that circuit need to go to the ground-neutral bus with the rest of the white and bare wires, or to the N terminal on the breaker??

I'm assuming the neutral needs to go to the breaker, for the thing to actually work?

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Last edited by the_damn; 05-11-15 at 09:53 AM.
  #176  
Old 05-11-15, 10:16 AM
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I'm assuming the neutral needs to go to the breaker, for the thing to actually work?
Yes... that is correct for arc fault and gfi type breakers. Usually there is a pre-attached white wire on the breaker that connects to the neutral bar.

On further review the neutral arrow on that breaker points down towards the panel. It looks like it MAY connect directly to the neutral buss bar.
 
  #177  
Old 05-11-15, 10:22 AM
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Correct, it is one of those plug-on neutral breakers. Thanks for confirming PJmax!
 
  #178  
Old 05-11-15, 10:46 AM
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Correct, it is one of those plug-on neutral breakers.
Yep, the whole idea behind plug-on neutral panels is to eliminate the mess created by all the white pigtails required with today's AFCI requirements. No pigtails needed with plug-on neutral AFCI breakers.
 
  #179  
Old 05-11-15, 01:21 PM
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Here is my masterpiece, ladies and gents. Thanks for all the help along the way. I put in a call to my inspector, and so long as that goes well we can consider this mission: accomplished!

If he has anything to point out, I might be checking back with you though! lol



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  #180  
Old 05-11-15, 01:54 PM
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Just to nag, white tape. Looks very good.
 
  #181  
Old 05-11-15, 02:22 PM
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Ah yes, the white tape was put on right after this picture and right before I called the inspector

Thanks Ray!
 
  #182  
Old 05-11-15, 04:10 PM
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One last thing guys. I am an idiot and almost forgot that one of my 20A circuits needs to be 240V (I had it connected like a normal 120V). I just want to make sure I corrected myself 'correctly' here, heh. And do I need to tape or paint that white wire black now? I seem to recall something along those lines.

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  #183  
Old 05-11-15, 04:13 PM
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Yes, the white wire needs to be remarked on both ends. A band or two of black tape will be fine.
 
  #184  
Old 05-11-15, 07:26 PM
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If both the black and white are from the same cable you do not have a 240 circuit. You need a two pole breaker for 240. You cannot put the tow hots on a single pole breaker.
 
  #185  
Old 05-11-15, 07:32 PM
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Yea, thanks pcboss... I am again an idiot, lol. I had a friend point this out for me as well earlier. When I come to things I don't know for sure, I always double check!

I picked up a 2-pole 20A breaker earlier
 
  #186  
Old 05-20-15, 04:23 PM
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With all respect, I need to make a simple clarification...

ray2047, you answered the OP question regarding to black tape the white wire in one of his single pole breaker as follows:

Yes, the white wire needs to be remarked on both ends. A band or two of black tape will be fine.

That is partially right, partially wrong. Right if the OP was using a Double Pole Breaker with two Hot wires and one of the Hot wires being a White wire, in that instance it needs to be remarked with black tape. BUT WRONG in this case as the OP was using a Single Pole Breaker 120Volts with two Hot wires installed on same screw... in this case he was making a connection that was NOT TO THE CODE, that was not safe for a Single Pole Breaker, and nor was achieving a 240Volts.

As pcboss replied, the OP needs a Double Pole Breaker in order to achieve a 240Volts circuit; and it should NEVER be wired more than just 1 Hot wire at a Single Pole Breaker, regardless if it's remarked with black tape or not.


Thanks a lot.


Jos
 
  #187  
Old 05-20-15, 04:34 PM
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I think ray just missed that because it was a completely unexpected/idiot thing for me to do, lol. Luckily I know when to check with you guys and when to double check with a higher power (one of my electrical buddies, who I hate bothering).

In the way of news, I got inspected the other day and passed. I would be excited but it really did not feel like much of an accomplishment, the guy took a few looks around and basically said 'yep' and handed me a piece of paper -- woohoo.

I am lined up to have this all said and done (power transferred over) this coming Tuesday. Getting my house to power back up at that time is the real inspection, lol. Wish me luck, will update, and thanks as always!
 
  #188  
Old 05-20-15, 04:38 PM
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the_damn,

I am lined up to have this all said and done (power transferred over) this coming Tuesday. Getting my house to power back up at that time is the real inspection, lol. Wish me luck,

That sounds great. I hope everything goes right next week.

I wish you Luck.


Thanks.


Jos
 
  #189  
Old 05-20-15, 04:38 PM
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I usually don't defend my answers but after 50+ years of doing electrical it never occurred to me that anyone would try to use a single pole breaker for 240 volts. I guess I shouldn't have assumed it was a two pole breaker but then again it never occurred to me I was assuming.
 
  #190  
Old 05-20-15, 04:58 PM
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Josi,

Those Square D breakers are listed for use with two conductors.

You are correct that it was the improper breaker for a 240 volt circuit.
 
  #191  
Old 05-20-15, 05:35 PM
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pcboss,

Thanks for the reply.

I am aware that some (not all) Square D Breakers and some Cutler Hammer are listed for Double Tapped Wiring and can use up to two conductors at the same screw. However, I am not sure if all inspectors are aware of that feature and if such double tapped breakers will pass an electrical inspection at some locations.

Nevertheless, this will be material for another post and debate, but I honestly need to ask: What are the real advantages of having a double tapped Breaker? If adding an additional circuit to it, will ONLY contribute to add more load to the same breaker, probably reaching it maximum ampacity and causing it to trip.

I personally (an opinion) don't like to use double tapped breakers and don't see real advantages to use them. I neither like the idea to use same Breaker to control different branch circuits, remember that after all some circuits must be dedicated circuits, and others can't be shared circuits according to NEC; so in the event that I don't have any space left on the breaker panel but need to add more devices to a non dedicated circuit etc. I prefer to use a Junction Box at some point of an existing circuit and add devices to that circuit as long as the current breaker ampacity supports the new load. If not, I prefer to change an existing 1'' breaker for (two) 1/2'' half inch breakers (GE 1/2'' Breakers) or use a Tandem Breaker to have more room for adding an additional circuit at the same space; and that way keep each breaker controlling/protecting just one circuit at time.


Jos
 

Last edited by JosiQDIY2015; 05-20-15 at 05:51 PM.
  #192  
Old 05-28-15, 01:02 PM
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Alright guys, everything is done but this last step (below). My new panel and meter socket are supplying power to my home, and it has not burned down yet either! I just want to again thank everyone for all of the input and advice they gave me here, as without you this would not have been possible (or I could be dead lol). Especially you ray2047, thanks bud!

So here is all that I have left. I have all of these ground wires belonging to my splice connections (for bringing over the old circuits to the new equipment)... but the problem is, most of the old circuits do not have ground wires! I guess I should just pigtail them together and to the box and close everything up?

You can barely make out the 3 rinky dink ground wires that exist for the old circuits, they are pigtailed and sticking way up in the picture. There is also the old water pipe ground sitting in the back of the box, guess I'll just leave it for now.

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  #193  
Old 05-28-15, 01:27 PM
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Connect all grounds together and pigtail to the metal panel box.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 05-28-15 at 04:50 PM.
  #194  
Old 05-28-15, 04:40 PM
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Those new cables should have cable clamps where they enter the old panel.
 
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